Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 648 posts

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#221

Post by asteli »

threatofrain wrote: post #152
bad_user wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China might build their own products and I can see them building WhatsApp alternatives, but I won't install Chinese alternatives to WhatsApp on my phone, which means the Chinese won't be able to talk with me, an European, all the while I'm communicating without issues with acquaintances from all over Europe and the U.S. This means that the Chinese are living in a bubble. This isn't news of course. But the other issue…

I don't think it'll be a contradiction for China to create a special city with more liberal values to attract liberal talent, or if China permits liberalism in a controlled context. Tech talent such as Andrew Ng already go to work in China knowing the political context surrounding China. I'm sure some HN people go to work in Dubai, which I'm sure has some contradictions to western cultural values. I'm also not sure i…

I would argue that this has been happening for a long time.

Example - China's Special Economic Zone program. Districts which have lowered administrative and regulatory barriers, specifically designed to attract foreign capital. Shenzen's SEZ has existed since the 1980's.

And that's not to speak of the numerous foreign enclaves that have existed throughout the years, from Hong Kong , the International Settlement and later the French Concession in Shanghai, and the numerous foreign districts that have popped up more spontanously (e.g. Jing'an, Shanghai)

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#222

Post by Sargos »

a1371 wrote: post #163
Certhas wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative: Innovation happens within the context of Chinas censorship and political regime. Blocking of entrenched western competitors allows home grown solutions to spring up, and local technological know how to develop faster. Capitalism and innovation turn out to work within the context of an illiberal society just fine. Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but s…

I think this alternative is more reasonable. Those who think China is just a copying machine, underestimate the influence the Chinese engineers had in the landscape of many industries. The hoverboards (the type with wheels) became a household product thanks to them. Conceptualization is not making something actually happen, unlike what the patent-trolls want us to believe. IoT was first proposed in the 90s, but did i…

Chinese engineers didn't make the hoverboard. If anything the hoverboard example disproves your example as they just copied the hoverboard from foreign companies.

I know what you're point seems to be even though you aren't communicating it very well. I do think you're missing the fact that producing goods cheaply does not make you a leader in tech. Besides quick fads like hoverboards or fidget spinners China does not have much traction with actually producing and selling products. Things might be made in China but they are designed by foreign companies and the vast majority of the profit leaves the country.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#223

Post by pducks32 »

victornomad wrote: post #29

Last year I went to China, wanted to show a web project I had in internet and it didnt work at all. My hosting was working perfectly and not blocked at all since I could SSH there. Then I realized that I had some jquery loading from a Google CDN and of course the cdn was banned there. And of course CSS fonts from google and youtube videos didnt work either... I learned 2 lessons. 1) dont rely on CDNs if you want to h…

Or just don’t worry about China.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#224

Post by Dolores12 »

chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

>China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth.

Talking about innovations, there are few areas where China is ahead of the whole world - like AliPay and WeChat payment systems. I am wondering how you gonna explain China's success when its GDP surpass United States one.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#225

Post by metaphorm »

whiddershins wrote: post #218
metaphorm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese philosophical roots include both Confucianism and Taoism, as well as the imported schools of though associated with Buddhism, and more recently quite a lot of modern Western ideas (particularly Marxism). Taoism is anti-authoritarian in the extreme. Buddhism is significantly more neutral on the subject but is definitely aligned closely with personal liberation and at minimum it does not make special exceptions…

I think your characterization of Buddhism might be a bit one dimensional. Tradition Tibetan society, for example, seems very hierarchical to me.

you're correct, there are many many different varieties of Buddhism. It's more correct to talk about Buddhisms since it's not just one thing. In the Chinese context though we're generally looking at Mahayana schools ranging from apolitical to anti-authoritarian. The Chan/Zen school founded by Bodhidharma is particularly anti-authoritarian though.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#226

Post by camus2 »

meri_dian wrote: post #15

Edit: This is not a justification or defense of internet censorship. It is an explanation of why the Chinese public may be more willing to accept strict government controls than the West. While most Westerners see actions like this as serious violations of individual rights, the Chinese are used to such exercises of control by their leaders. There is a firm historical basis for similar behavior going back thousands o…

> the Chinese are used to such exercises of control by their leaders

When was the last time the Chinese elected their leaders? the fact that they are "used" to this doesn't mean they approve. If there is a consensus, then let the Chinese people sanctify it with a democratic vote.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#227

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jimmies wrote: post #157
ben_jones wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 5 points according to the video: 1) Married Priscilla Chan 2) Learned Mandarin 3) Joined Tsinghua University 4) Befriended Xijinping 5) Offered to let Xijinping name firstborn Personally I have trouble believing 1 and 5 were to get Facebook products into China unabridged. 5 sounds like a joke at a dinner party.

#5 is really low. I cannot believe someone who did that is a great person. This guy's baby is just another tool huh?

I'm sure Zuck just meant to pick the Chinese name, not the official English name. My half-Chinese son still doesn't have one, my wife having rejected my proposal of 小囧.

Even then, I think this is just Zuck being Zuck, he is a bit socially awkward and was probably unfiltered genuine here for no business reason.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#229

Post by IncRnd »

chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas.

There are more people in China than in the United States, Europe, and Russia combined. China already manufactures your clothes, chips, computers, phones, and missile chips. I don't think it's correct, given the world's dependence on China, to say China is somehow behind the times (wrt computer innovation).

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#230

Post by marcosdumay »

chaostheory wrote: post #108
micaksica wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas. So in other words, the ruling class continues to rule, as they will be the only ones with the sanctioned political freedoms to study abroad, etc. > China's fate as being relegated to being the world's giant copy machine is sealed unless things revert China being the world's giant…

> China being the world's giant copy machine has worked very well for those in power in China. Why not sustain that as long as possible? Someone may correct me... 1. having a more open society results in more innovation, which results in more economic development which allows the ruling class to become even wealthier and more powerful globally 2. currently, only 18-20% of China is middle class. About 78% of China is…

> having a more open society results in more innovation

Yep.

> which results in more economic development

Yep.

> which allows the ruling class to become even wealthier and more powerful globally

This one does not follow. It's probably false. Even if China gains a ruling class that is wealthier than the current one (what isn't a given), there is no reason to think the same people will be there.

Post reply on HN