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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#221

Post by ricardobeat »

grogenaut wrote: post #202
Symbiote wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather live to see the next day than care about what a helmet looks like. Do you wear one while walking? Or hiking? There's also an increased risk of brain injury from these activities. Most people I know don't wear one, because the combination of the discomfort, hassle, inconvenience and appearance aren't worth the perceived low increased risk of cycling compared to, for example, walking.

I wear one when rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, skiing, motorcycle, bicycle, skateboard, football, etc. Pretty much any time I go over 8mph. I even considered one in aussie rules football but they were hard to find in the states. I found that helmets for winter sports are better than hats. They don't soak up sweat like a hat does so do better in cold and are better vented than a hat as well. They also really h…

That's a completely different situation than the average Dutch cyclist faces. First, there are no hills to be seen, so not that easy to pick up speed. Especially on a city bike which is 99% of the fleet. It's unusual to even reach 20km/h. People carry their shopping, kids, furniture and pets in them. They cycle in whatever they are wearing - suits, skirts, jeans, whatever; the fact you can just hop on a bike without having to gear up makes it much more attractive to everyday life.

There was also this study from a university in Utrecht showing that [in the Netherlands] cyclists wearing helmets are more careless and cause more accidents, nullifying any safety benefit...

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#222

Post by thwd »

stephenr wrote: post #215

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…

Don't know about the American thing but what I do know is that while in Europe they teach us to turn our heads and bodies when driving, the modern world caught up with blindspotless mirrors and teach you to use them. It's much safer as people tended to turn their hands together with their bodies, effectively steering a car to the left when looking out the left window.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#223

Post by speleding »

smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

There is another benefit to the "Dutch reach" not mentioned in the article: if a sudden gust of wind catches your door it will be easier to hold with your right arm. (They taught me this when I got my license)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#224

Post by grogenaut »

ricardobeat wrote: post #221
grogenaut wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wear one when rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, skiing, motorcycle, bicycle, skateboard, football, etc. Pretty much any time I go over 8mph. I even considered one in aussie rules football but they were hard to find in the states. I found that helmets for winter sports are better than hats. They don't soak up sweat like a hat does so do better in cold and are better vented than a hat as well. They also really h…

That's a completely different situation than the average Dutch cyclist faces. First, there are no hills to be seen, so not that easy to pick up speed. Especially on a city bike which is 99% of the fleet. It's unusual to even reach 20km/h. People carry their shopping, kids, furniture and pets in them. They cycle in whatever they are wearing - suits, skirts, jeans, whatever; the fact you can just hop on a bike without…

I'm not talking about Dutchland, I'm talking about where I ride. :)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#225

Post by jacquesm »

314 wrote: post #209
jacquesm wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more cyclists than young agile males. And your advice only applies to those. I'm trying to imagine a 60 year old lady on a bike applying this advice and fail to see any happy endings. And where I live old ladies on bikes are extremely common. Cycling advice should apply to all cyclists, not just to those giving the advice.

Why are only agile young males capable of steering to the left and right while cycling? Surely other categories of cyclist are capable of doing this. If any cyclist, regardless of age or gender, is unable to plot a safe path and follow it avoiding obstacles then they are endangering themselves through their choice to cycle on a road.

Because 'slamming on the brakes' is not an option for older cyclists, slamming on the brakes (especially on a wet road) is a small step away from falling for an older cyclist. They can however coast to a stop while braking. They can't swerve either and they can be forgetful (forget to indicate, forget to look around them). And still they are perfectly valid cyclists and should not have to worry about arriving in one piece (or at all) because they are a little bit older.

Cyclists are perfectly safe on their own, it's up to the rest of the traffic to keep them safe and treat them as if they're made of glass.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#226

Post by cr1895 »

johanvts wrote: post #220
tluyben2 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Good or bad; I am Dutch and I would confidently say that all people I know would never ride a bike again if they have to wear those silly helmets. More likely if it would be mandatory, they just would refuse and not do it, but if largely enforced they would just not use bikes anymore.

When I was in primary school and maybe high school I remember not wanting to wear a helmet because it looked silly. As a adult I think it would be a lot more silly to loose my life, health, ability to focus or to walk just because I didn't want to look silly. I'm not saying you are wrong, but that all people you know are. Besides the helmets these days really do look better, the producers have moved on from a purely…

Have you been to the Netherlands before and seen how effective and safe the cycling infra is even without people wearing helmets?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#227

Post by stephenr »

gfodor wrote: post #216
stephenr wrote: post #215

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…

eh, depending on the car, often times a blind spot is just due to someone failing to adjust their mirrors properly. if you actually do it right, you should not have a blind spot. if you can see your own car in your side view mirrors, you've adjusted them wrong. if they are adjusted correctly, cars approaching on either side of your vehicle will pass from the rear view, to the side mirror, into your peripheral vision…

I've read about this supposed "solution" and the greatest thing I took away was that it trades side-of-car blind spots (which I can resolve by turning my head) for rear-of-car blind spots, which I can do nothing about, as my head doesn't rotate 180º.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#228

Post by johanvts »

pjmlp wrote: post #174
djsumdog wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

Not only in The Netherlands, in most European cities actually. And if you go down to the Mediterranean countries even on motorbikes, not everyone wears on at least on city traffic. Regarding bike helmets, they usually only protect if you fall vertically on your head, making their protection capability highly questionable. They offer zero protection over getting hit by a car or falling off the bike.

That is simply not true, the helmet will be the first part of you head that touch the ground in almost any fall. Especially if you are using one of the more covering "skate" helmets. If you get hit by a car head on the helmet will also most likely be the first part of you head to hit the car. I would reverse your statement and say the helmet will only not protect your head if you fall at a horisontal, actually upwards pointing, direction.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#229

Post by stephenr »

thwd wrote: post #222
stephenr wrote: post #215

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…

Don't know about the American thing but what I do know is that while in Europe they teach us to turn our heads and bodies when driving, the modern world caught up with blindspotless mirrors and teach you to use them. It's much safer as people tended to turn their hands together with their bodies, effectively steering a car to the left when looking out the left window.

> the modern world caught up with blind spotless mirrors

How modern are you talking? I've seen some very new cars (I think in a trip to California once, driving an SUV thing that almost needed two lanes to itself) with slightly odd mirrors - perhaps slightly concave or convex? I don't remember, but it had more view, and I vaguely remember the 'image' being distorted slightly though?

Besides that, no car I've driven has had that feature, and I've owned cars from VW, Honda and Toyota all built from 2005 onwards.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#230

Post by mtrimpe »

kvz wrote: post #168
rosege wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other risks though - I always found it odd that motorised scooters are allowed on the bike paths. My Dutch neighbour had a very bad accident when one hit him on his bike and was off work for quite some time.

This is not the case anymore since ~5 years. The only motorized vehicels alllowed are those that cant travel fasher than 25km/h (bike speed)

If you live in Amsterdam you'd be hard pressed to find more than one scooter a month that's going under 25km/h.

Amsterdam is also pushing very hard to get an exception to be able to force them onto the street though.

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