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Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

nexedi.com

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Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#221

Post by pier25 »

st3fan wrote: post #199
thomasahle wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik All 'browsers' in the app store have to be just a skin on top of Safari. Apple has rules against independent rendering code.

Calling it a 'skin on top of Safari' does not really do justice to all the hard work my team has been putting in Firefox for iOS. Apple gives you (limited) access to WebKit. Basically: a rectangular area on the screen that renders web content. To 'skin' it, you have to build a browser application around that. A complete application that handles tabs, user settings, sync, history, bookmarks, reader mode, anything that…

The simple truth is that 99% of the time when browsing is spent on that "rectangular area".

Maybe the term "skin" is not adequate, but IMO the features added by Chrome and Firefox on iOS are not that significant for the browsing experience compared to the "rectangular area". Thanks to Apple, WKWebView based browsers are always going to be second class citizens.

Personally I never understood why you decided to move to iOS. I think you should have stick to your guns.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#222

Post by pier25 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #45

It's really hard to believe that Apple is holding back the 'mobile web' when it's shown time and time again that they have the best performing web platform in the market. It was true when iPhone was introduced in 2008, it was true in 2015[0] and it is still true now[1]. "In a nutshell, the fastest known Android device available today -- and there are millions of Android devices much slower than that out there -- perf…

The problem is not hardware speed, as you point out, but software.

It would be lovely to see a real Chrome benchmark on iOS, but alas, Apple doesn't want that to happen.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#223

Post by pier25 »

franciscop wrote: post #85
madeofpalk wrote: post #45

It's really hard to believe that Apple is holding back the 'mobile web' when it's shown time and time again that they have the best performing web platform in the market. It was true when iPhone was introduced in 2008, it was true in 2015[0] and it is still true now[1]. "In a nutshell, the fastest known Android device available today -- and there are millions of Android devices much slower than that out there -- perf…

It's obvious you are not a web developer using HTML5/CSS3/ES6. iOS has became the new Internet Explorer hands down, and now it's the first platform I test on to check for compatibility issues (as it's the one that normally gives those issues).

Amen.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#224

Post by DerekL »

scarface74 wrote: post #42
simonh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is making them support the iPhone.

Back in the day, PageMaker ran only on Macs because only Macs had the underlying technology to support it. People bought Macs to run PageMaker. It was the "killer app". If Nexedi's product was that good, they could convince people to buy Android devices. Can a game maker sue Sony because it is extra work to port a game from XBox? Can they force Sony to support Kinect?

Furthermore, suppose Mozilla wants to port Firefox to the Nintendo 3DS. Does Nintendo have to let it in to their eShop?

Most game consoles since the NES have had lock-out technology, and that's legal everywhere, as far as I know.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#225

Post by pier25 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #167
zajd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need snap to build a slider natively. Also interestingly snap is NOT supported when Safari is rendering stuff in a different app, only when you're actually in the Safari App.

As the note says, WKWebView is an embeddable web view for apps. This is what iOS Chrome uses FWIW.

Doh, that is precisely the whole problem being discussed here.

WKWebView is a mess just like UIWebView.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#226

Post by pier25 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #142
keyle wrote: post #86

Remember when Apple was bashing Adobe for Flash and how they were about standards? (I'm going to get downvoted for this) Anyways you were a fool for believing it.

Blackberry CEO back in 2010[0]: For those of us who live outside of Apple’s distortion field, we know that 7-inch tablets will actually be a big portion of the market and we know that Adobe Flash support actually matters to customers who want a real web experience. We also know that while Apple’s attempt to control the ecosystem and maintain a closed platform may be good for Apple, developers want more options and cu…

You are missing the point.

Of course Flash was/is terrible, and not only for mobile phones.

But what keyle is pointing out is the irony of Apple arguing against Flash for being a proprietary and non standard technology, praising HTML5, and now relegating HTML5 as a second class technology in iOS.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#227

Post by pier25 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #72
themihai wrote: post #30

Some(Apple) may say that the web/browser ecosystem is mess and it's not worth the investment though. However the restrictions on 3rd party browsers is weird. The application is sandboxed (thus no additional security threats compared to other apps) so I think the argument is political not technical.

Third party code execution environments seems like a bit of a slippery slope that I can understand Apple wanting to avoid.

You can run C++ code in iOS, except if that code is functioning as a browser rendering DOM and running JS

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#228

Post by pier25 »

barumrho wrote: post #139
ahmetkun wrote: post #97

someone should also sue Apple (and Google?) for worse performance in the webview. something that run smoothly on native Safari was laggy in webview. haven't checked in a while though, not sure if this is still the case.

WKWebView is supposed to fix this issue. https://developer.apple.com/reference/webkit/wkwebview

WKWebView is a mess.

There are bugs that have been there since it was released years ago and are still unassigned.

https://bugs.webkit.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=wkwebview&li...

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#229

Post by WayneBro »

briandear wrote: post #198
captainmuon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I put on my naïve glasses for a moment: Apple has a monopoly on iOS devices . There is no competition. And if somebody would built a better or freer iOS device, Apple would use the full force of the state to stop them. So, in a very narrow fashion, Apple does use their government-granted rights to coerce you to buy it's devices, if you want an iOS one. Of course, nowadays Android devices are more than adequate rep…

McDonalds has a monopoly on McDonalds's hamburgers too.

But McDonalds cannot just put whatever ingredients they want in their burgers. They have to follow rules. Like not putting Nicotine in them.

Re: Why we are suing Apple for better HTML5 support in iOS

#230

Post by natch »

ac29 wrote: post #211
natch wrote: post #185

To Nexedi, if you're reading this discussion: As you know Apple these days has devices and platforms to which users entrust a tremendous amount of very personal and often private data. Therefore, Apple is relatively careful about security issues, and slow to introduce features that may open holes that expose users' private data. Your entire blog post does not even once mention the word security. It seems this concept…

>It seems this concept does not even enter your thinking at all as an explanation for why Apple must be very conservative about adding the types of functionalities you list. Read the article again -- I don't think they are asking Apple to add more HTML5 functionality, they are asking Apple to allow other browsers which have already implemented the functionality they need onto iOS. Their legal team thinks French law i…

Your points don't hold up, because Apple has to worry about platform security, not just browser security. And taking Microsoft and Google as examples does not support your argument. Mozilla, maybe (though possibly just by having fewer users as compared to all of Android and all of Windows) but again they don't have to worry about platform security as much as Apple does.

French law is outside of my expertise. I'm just talking common sense here. I do recognize that there might not be much overlap between the two in matters of technology, though.

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