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Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

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Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#221
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to eliminate parking at all to achieve this. All you have to do is shift city taxation towards taxing parking more in relative terms. Encourage people to use existing public transportation more

>> All you have to do is shift city taxation towards taxing parking more And that's exactly what's wrong with this idea: in a democratic society such taxation changes would be temoporary at best - people would just vote for politicians that would change it back during the next elections. On the other hand, gradualy increasing quality of public transportation by investing more money in it would be something that noone…

Ah so just magically make money appear. Not by tax policy nor by fare hikes (which people certainly do protest against, wildly).

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#222
post #12

Hm, i find this kinda hard to port over to a typical chaotic/radial european city. In Moscow, for example, there are wide radial and circular roads, from which branches of small roads diffuse into the meat of the city under pretty much every angle. Any attempts to rope "superblocks" off would likely collapse the traffic completely - there aren't any alternative roads like a grid would have.

In Moscow, and other Soviet cities there are "superblocks" already. It's called "microraion" [1]. A huge block of apartment buildings with a ring of driveways around every building, and a lot of shared spaces like playgrounds and such.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdistrict

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit: http://cdn.torontolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Transi...

This is very manipulative picture, although not as bad as the famous Munster photo (this: https://headwatersolver.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/64408578... notice how each photo has different perspective and zoom to make cars appear the biggest and bicycles the smallest). When I need to get to the work, pick up groceries, transport two 30-inch displays across the town, etc., I simply do not walk out to the street, pose…

I don't think anyone denies that taxi services (which is what self-driving cars will eventually replace) are an important part of a city's transportation network. But owned-and-operated cars don't have to be, and using owned-and-operated cars as the backbone of an urban transportation network doesn't scale. And neither do taxis, and for the same reason.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#224
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to eliminate parking at all to achieve this. All you have to do is shift city taxation towards taxing parking more in relative terms. Encourage people to use existing public transportation more

>> All you have to do is shift city taxation towards taxing parking more And that's exactly what's wrong with this idea: in a democratic society such taxation changes would be temoporary at best - people would just vote for politicians that would change it back during the next elections. On the other hand, gradualy increasing quality of public transportation by investing more money in it would be something that noone…

People are not stupid, they are often uninformed. Politicians' job is to advocate for good policies in a way that people understand and support

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a LONG time to build out serious transit infrastructure. Like 30 years (see Seattle's recent ballot initiative). You're asking basically an entire generation to have shitty mobility for most of their working lives, so that they will vote to build trains for their children. More likely they will just leave the cities. Cities do adapt to poor mobility: local businesses get to charge huge markup because they do…

How are people going to leave cities if that's where the jobs are and you can't drive there from outside because there's nowhere to park? We've already had shitty mobility for multiple generations. We can and should build transit much more quickly than we are today, and we could if we were actually willing to commit to redesigning our cities. People want to live in walkable towns and cities. People have done so, happ…

[deleted]

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a LONG time to build out serious transit infrastructure. Like 30 years (see Seattle's recent ballot initiative). You're asking basically an entire generation to have shitty mobility for most of their working lives, so that they will vote to build trains for their children. More likely they will just leave the cities. Cities do adapt to poor mobility: local businesses get to charge huge markup because they do…

How are people going to leave cities if that's where the jobs are and you can't drive there from outside because there's nowhere to park? We've already had shitty mobility for multiple generations. We can and should build transit much more quickly than we are today, and we could if we were actually willing to commit to redesigning our cities. People want to live in walkable towns and cities. People have done so, happ…

Indeed it can and should. Leaving people stranded in places where things are far apart with neither parking nor adequate transit is not a viable way to do it, though.

In Chicago it is actually faster to commute by public transit from the suburbs ~20 miles away then from the neighborhoods ~8 miles away because the commuter rail service (Metra) is so much better than the urban transit service (CTA).

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#227
post #181
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, they are better off with raised or lowered pedestrian walkways vs removing streets, but this is more about aesthetics than practicality. As to bikes, they should be on the road anyway.

One of the reasons they do this is to fight pollution. Your solution doesn't have the benefit of reducing traffic in an area?

Anything that reduces the number of trips by cars in the city reduces pollution. The downside of their approach is you increase the amount of travel time in car for anyone that makes a trip thus increasing pollution citywide for each trip on average.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very manipulative picture, although not as bad as the famous Munster photo (this: https://headwatersolver.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/64408578... notice how each photo has different perspective and zoom to make cars appear the biggest and bicycles the smallest). When I need to get to the work, pick up groceries, transport two 30-inch displays across the town, etc., I simply do not walk out to the street, pose…

I don't think anyone denies that taxi services (which is what self-driving cars will eventually replace) are an important part of a city's transportation network. But owned-and-operated cars don't have to be, and using owned-and-operated cars as the backbone of an urban transportation network doesn't scale. And neither do taxis, and for the same reason.

> But owned-and-operated cars don't have to be, and using owned-and-operated cars as the backbone of an urban transportation network doesn't scale

This needs a citation. There are lots of cities in the US where public transport accounts for a minority of transit.

You have so far failed to make any argument and only made a provocative comment linking a totally non-informative picture. Have you ever ran errands by bus in a city like GP was mentioning? It's a huge and ineffective waste of time. Suppose GP makes $100 an hour and produces $400 an hour of economic output but you are arguing rather than pay $15 and save a 50 minute trip, he should 'bite the bullet' and be forced to take public transport (by regulating cars off the roads); for what purpose is that again?

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#229

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

I'm sorry, but as a resident of Hyde Park for more than a decade, your experience could not be more alien to me. I have not once wished for the burden and expense of owning a car. Indeed, living here has convinced me that the personal automobile has no place in an urban environment.

Hyde Park is very far from perfect, but its problems are entirely the fault of people with attitudes like yours. You could have bought an apartment close to the shops you'd like to frequent, or bought a bicycle (and now, bike share is a legitimate option). It takes 10-15 minutes to get downtown on Metra, but you probably couldn't be bothered to read a train schedule. And indeed, the problems with Metra—namely, long headways outside of peak hours and lack of fare reciprocity with CTA—would be eminently solvable by a consituency who values freedom from cars. Instead, we have people like you, who will exacerbate our issues by demanding more parking (and hence, necessarily, less density, less walkability, less transit, and less vibrancy). The assumption that everyone will drive engenders opposition to new development, particularly the type of mixed-use development that makes things easy for people on foot.

I'm always dismayed to see this kind of thinking on a site called Hacker News. A true "hacker" would look at the problems of urban living and try to unearth the real causes instead of falling back on the same old kludge everybody uses, buying a car. If you did, you would see that the kludge itself has become the dominant problem.

You feel entitled to easy access to the city, the sort of easy access that is currently offered to drivers and prohibited to anybody else. You're coming from a place of enormous privilege. Living without a car in Hyde Park is, despite your protestations, easy. Living, with or without a car, in most of the rest of the South Side is incredibly difficult. Many people on the South Side are too poor to own a car, or are driven into poverty by needing to own one to access their jobs. By choosing to drive, you are actively making life harder for the majority of South Siders, who would benefit greatly from better transit access and jobs and shops they can safely walk or bike to. Buying a car bought you a bit of convenience, but make no mistake: the system you have bought into immiserates, maims, and kills. We need to think beyond our own immediate comforts and decide to build a city that is safe and accessible for everybody.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#230
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the requested example of breaking 'corrupt local monopolies'... And also to point out that the main effect of uber is to shift responsibility to drivers and government. Replace licenced, trained and properly contracted drivers (paying retirement and health insurance payments) and fully maintained and insured cars with untrained, uninsured and precariously 'employed' drivers, which gain no long term safety…

Oh no but he can pay with the credit card. Sad how we trade in others' lives and economical morals so easily for such little conveniences. Thanks for your response that are thoughts that I share.

Have you tried using taxis in California before Uber? They just absolutely refuse to come and leave you stranded miles from anywhere. If you try to pay with a card, they kidnap you and drive you to an ATM to get cash instead. I once called the Burlingame dispatch instead of the San Mateo dispatch and got screamed at. It's life-threateningly bad.
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