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My Interviews with Amazon

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Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#221

Post by kafkaesq »

justinv wrote: post #161
inopinatus wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm ex-AWS. Actually an ex-AWS hiring manager. My experience is at odds with the negative stories. What Amazon has is a culture with a strong flavour. Like all strong flavours, I think you're going to either love it or loathe it. I had a fantastic team to work with - they were all either ex-tech-sector CTOs or equivalent or they had that level of potential. So as the team manager I had permanent case of imposter synd…

I'm at Amazon (non-tech; 3 different orgs; so literally NYTimes' focus or whatnot). Your first paragraph is exactly how I describe Amazon to people. You either love the culture - or you hate it. There are very few people I know who are ambivalent about working there. It's hard work. It's important work. It's demanding work. It's not for everyone.

Hard work, get it.

But what about the stories of people bringing their laptops into the bathroom stalls (which are always packed to the gills because why would Jeff want to waste money on, you know, extra bathrooms and stuff)? And once there, talking to each other about work stuff while doing, you know, their "business"?

Taken together, these anecdotes paint a picture of a company that's not just hard-driven, but... weird.

And in some corners, apparently kind of gross.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#222

Post by kafkaesq »

ktRolster wrote: post #154
dominotw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applied to amazon last month, they asked me to do interviewstreet coding for 2 hrs. After that Recruiter didn't even have the minimum courtesy to let me know what happened. He simply stopped all communications with me. Reflects their attitude of treating ppl as mere 'resources' , I would work for amazon if I have no self-respect.

After that Recruiter didn't even have the minimum courtesy to let me know what happened. That's pretty common recently for companies. I'm not sure why.

I'm not sure why.

Because as a culture, we stop thinking of candidates as human beings the moment we decide we aren't hiring them?

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#223

Post by ryanlm »

khedoros wrote: post #214
ryanlm wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant design discussions, etc. Not just a code monkey. I'm sorry you think it is funny that I actually want to participate in the development process. Don't worry, at my current job, I know my place. I make sure not overstep bounds, etc. Also, maybe I haven't been an Enterprise Fizzbuzz Java Developer for 6 years, but I've been keeping busy by having personal projects that most enterprise developers would probably…

> I meant design discussions, etc. I think that was understood (at least, that's how I read it). In a good environment at any company, your ideas will be fairly weighed against other options. Most environments aren't "good", by that definition. Don't be surprised if ideas that don't support the status quo are thrown aside. > I'm sorry you think it is funny that I actually want to participate in the development proces…

What, I don't have a right to defend myself after being made fun of? When did I ever presume it would be simple?

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#224

Post by ssalazar »

ryanlm wrote: post #188
brianwawok wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah so this is the age old problem. Big companies do really big thing. Google is literally changing the world. But if you get a job there, you are employee #145,231. Maybe if you work hard for 5 years you can rise to the rank of middle manager, and attend a meeting with someone that reports to the CEO, and maybe you can try to get a project you want done scheduled. More likely you will just do the work you are assign…

Is the age old problem mean I'm too young to be taken seriously in any context?

No, that the problem itself has been around a long time (at least since the late 70s PC boom).

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#225

Post by wernercd »

vonmoltke wrote: post #101
wernercd wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm at a new job where the "old team" of two developers is being replaced by 5 devs... the old team had ~15 years of experience and can't code their way out of a wet paper bag. Not saying anything about YOU... experience is important... but 15 years experience doesn't mean 15 years of good experience or lack of bad habits.

So, what were they doing for 15 years and why weren't they replaced sooner?

Basically the company started expanding and their code base started falling apart at the seams.

Two coders that each had "silos" with wedges to keep the two sides communicating together. One did web side - ordering, registration, etc on a Webform MVC customized hybrid. The other did floor applications.

New customer? New database, website, etc. Sql statements? "If company a then select * from blah where field like '{text}';" everywhere. Why select *? Because the different code bases diverged... why like/text? Because sql injection doesn't exist. Almost everything text fields... 2 wide inventory fields that house more than 99 items... 10 wide inventory fields that house 2 items...

I will have some posts for TheDailyWTF once I get my feet a bit more wet...

As to why it took so long? They were able to keep it running with duck tape and bubble gum... once the company started expanding, the better of the two programmers knew they couldn't keep up and left earlier this year. The other is due gone soon... Good guy, but... unwilling to accept that his code is shit.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#226

Post by ssalazar »

ryanlm wrote: post #138
throwaway52584 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm picturing a wide-eyed lamb wandering into the lion's den. "Hai guys! Let's have conversations LOL."

I meant design discussions, etc. Not just a code monkey. I'm sorry you think it is funny that I actually want to participate in the development process. Don't worry, at my current job, I know my place. I make sure not overstep bounds, etc. Also, maybe I haven't been an Enterprise Fizzbuzz Java Developer for 6 years, but I've been keeping busy by having personal projects that most enterprise developers would probably…

Weird to see other commenters shutting you down. Mentoring younger or less experienced employees is an important part of many healthy software shops. Work environments where employees are constantly growing + learning interesting and new skills/knowledge are valued, so I would ignore the grumps here.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#227

Post by thefastlane »

larrik wrote: post #3

Interesting, I get pestered by them constantly, and never actually considered going for it. For one thing, the common sentiment on HN seems to be 'friends don't let friends work for Amazon'. Amazon seems like a meat grinder, where getting hired isn't as hard as it seems, and they just burn through young people who don't know better. This is as someone completely on the outside who's only heard stories, though. When I…

"Amazon seems like a meat grinder"

who isn't a meatgrinder these days? (serious question.)

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#228

Post by serge2k »

derefr wrote: post #187
serge2k wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Experience is more than just being able to code Necessary, but not sufficient. If you can't code you're worthless as a developer. You can be a great coder, but if your other skills are poor you aren't worth a senior engineer salary.

I've had points in my programming career where I felt completely burnt out. I would open up a text-editor and just stare at it. I didn't want to create. But, separately from programming, I absolutely love teaching/mentoring. I found that, if I was helping someone with a programming problem, I could code just fine while burnt out. As long as someone else was doing "the programming"—the part involving wanting to create…

Justify to me why you shouldn't be replaced by someone who has comparable skills, but doesn't rely entirely on pair programming?

I can't hand you an important task and expect it to get done unless I give you a second resource?

You are talking about burnout. Would you really walk into an interview and respond to a coding question with "Oh, you'll have to write with me directing because I only pair program"?

I'm going to stand by my earlier statement. Being able to code is a necessary skill for a senior developer. Or any developer really.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#229

Post by abecedarius »

superuser2 wrote: post #156
pc86 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$600k real estate puts you well above "upper middle class" nationally. Maybe not in a limited geographic area, and certainly not SF/NY/DC, but that's well over 3x the median home value for the entire country.

Housing is cheaper in other places because salaries are lower . The same worker who is paid enough for a $600k house in a tech hub would be paid proportionally less in a place with cheaper housing. (Unless he was just underpaid in the tech hub, and could have gotten enough for a palatial house in the tech hub at a different employer). People don't live in the national average, they live in limited geographic areas, a…

That's not quite right: you only get your whole surplus extracted as rent in a market with artificial restrictions on housing. Unfortunately for us programmers our top job market happens to be an awful housing market, but that seems to be an accident of history -- we could've ended up somewhere else with rents that are high but not ridiculous. That's how Bay Area rents seemed to me 15 years ago.

Re: My Interviews with Amazon

#230

Post by khedoros »

ryanlm wrote: post #223
khedoros wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I meant design discussions, etc. I think that was understood (at least, that's how I read it). In a good environment at any company, your ideas will be fairly weighed against other options. Most environments aren't "good", by that definition. Don't be surprised if ideas that don't support the status quo are thrown aside. > I'm sorry you think it is funny that I actually want to participate in the development proces…

What, I don't have a right to defend myself after being made fun of? When did I ever presume it would be simple?

Sure, you have a right.

> When did I ever presume it would be simple?

Your tone implies a process like this: 1. Get a job at Amazon 2. Never be bored, and have a good chance for input.

You may be lucky and have an experience like that, but the general consensus seems to be that it isn't the most likely outcome. #1 is the easy part. The parts of #2 will be false to varying degrees, separately and together, as time goes on (every job has boring parts, for example).

And anyhow, you wrote a post that was easy to make fun of, with the tempting mix of inexperience and confidence. You can't set yourself up for ridicule and expect that no one will take you up on the offer.

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