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Amphetamine use in America's workforce

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Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#221

Post by thisguy666 »

WalterSear wrote: post #33
md224 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I was struck by the same line, "cracked out of their minds"... very biased. I don't know if "abuse" used to have a coherent meaning, but these days it boils down to "used in a way I don't like". Drug use is certainly a mixed bag but it deserves a balanced treatment, not scare tactics. The article even goes on to list great accomplishments that were made possible (or at least supported) by drug use. Talk about…

"Narcotic" stimulants tipped me off.

Narcotic is an actual word with an actual definition that is completely appropriate in this scenario. This is no way sensationalized.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#223

Post by thisguy666 »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #188
ramblerman wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has taken various recreational and over the counter drugs I question that sentiment. Having a prescription doesn't make adderall magically different. To me it's very much like speed or cocaine, just longer lasting and more consistent with less of a let down. 1) any child who takes it certainly has an advantage 2) I couldn't fathom taking something that strong every single day for months on end (if not…

"Regardless of your neurological makeup" This is where you go off the rails. Neurology makes a huge difference in the effect of many drugs, and there has been a tremendous amount of research backing that up. Just because you personally can't believe it doesn't mean it's not true.

^ fact.

again the amount of ignorance to drugs displayed in this thread is frightening. people who have only used amphetamines for less than 10 years, or drugs at all, telling us all about them. facepalm.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#224

Post by fixermark »

gozur88 wrote: post #129
fixermark wrote: post #30

I can't help but ask myself whether we should be wondering why Americans can't make it without drug-modified behavior, or whether this is better or worse than alternatives such as cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine, etc. Humans in societies have been chemically altering their moods since we discovered mood-altering chemicals. Stress occurs inside and outside civilized workforces, and people take measures to mitigate stres…

>I can't help but ask myself whether we should be wondering why Americans can't make it without drug-modified behavior... Can't or don't want to? Drugs can make things easier, at least in the short run, and the stigma against pill popping is pretty much gone.

True. And if that's the case, it becomes a bit like wondering why people wear more clothing to keep warm rather than just trusting their bodies' natural defense against the elements---given that their ancestors clearly got by for thousands of years with just their skin and a maybe few scraps of cloth or animal hide if the going got REALLY tough, who needs down-lined jackets?

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#226

Post by jrapdx3 »

ap22213 wrote: post #163
jrapdx3 wrote: post #157

This is an important topic, not only from the perspective of drug dependency and substance use disorders (SUDs) research, but also re: potentially misleading statements which may discourage use among people who could benefit from stimulant-class medication. I have treated several hundred individuals with amphetamine, methylphenidate and related compounds, primarily for ADHD in adults and adolescents. Everyone should…

Thanks for your comments. A few years ago, in my late 30s, I was diagnosed with bipolar, ADHD, and anxiety disorder (all three have high comorbidity, interestingly). When I got the diagnosis, I was a little bothered. In my family and culture, it's considered a weakness to have mental illness or even talk about it. One is just supposed to 'tough it out'. And, I did tough it out up until then. But, I had finally reache…

Your story is one that's familiar to me and I appreciate the courage it takes to face the realities you describe. In my experience you have really nailed the important elements of dealing with these seriously disabling conditions, and comments like yours are enormously helpful to informing people about the nature of the problems.

The comorbidities and family history are often similar to your situation. I often said "comorbidity is the rule not the exception", and ADHD and bipolar D/O are known to be highly heritable conditions.

Tolerability of stimulant medications is usually quite good. Can't say the same for agents available for bipolar D/O, it's especially devilish to manage when ADHD and mood D/O are both present.

I glean that you've responded pretty well to treatment and that's great. One thing I learned is that treatment can help patients improve tremendously, essentially functioning in the "normal" range. In the treatment field we consider "normalization" to be the "gold standard" of success. It takes time, years in most cases, but the benefit of persistent treatment is in my view extremely clear.

The key advice I always offered was "keep up the good work".

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#227

Post by tlrobinson »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #180
tlrobinson wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really comparing meth to ADHD drugs?

Whoever wrote the Wikipedia page on Ritalin [1] conflates Amphatamine and methylphenidate. "Amphetamine" appears on 24 times on Ritalin's page, 5 times as "amphetamine and methylphenidate" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate Adderall [2] is an amphetamine. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall

I know they're amphetamines, but surely there's a big difference between that and smoking street meth (which is what I assume your friend switched to from cocaine)

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#228

Post by ap22213 »

ramblerman wrote: post #184
Vraxx wrote: post #9

I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly common—Wall Street traders, software engineers, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, all cracked out of their minds trying to keep up with the competition." Yes, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and yes I have an Adderall prescription. But I'd hardly call myself…

As someone who has taken various recreational and over the counter drugs I question that sentiment. Having a prescription doesn't make adderall magically different. To me it's very much like speed or cocaine, just longer lasting and more consistent with less of a let down. 1) any child who takes it certainly has an advantage 2) I couldn't fathom taking something that strong every single day for months on end (if not…

If, in your statements, we substitute ADHD with another chronic disease and Adderall with another medication would your conclusions still hold?

In an ideal world, yes, we would all function optimally in our environment. But, unfortunately environmental changes have outpaced Human adaptation. And, while I'm pretty sure my biology would've been better suited to running around a plain chasing wild game, I didn't get to choose.

Most medications have side effects and trade offs. What's important is whether the medication improves a person's quality of life overall.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#229

Post by jhayward »

Strangework wrote: post #220
Diederich wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can speak to the long-term effects of two people taking adderall/ritalin. I started taking them about 14 years ago, when I was in early 30s. Being raised by my great depression era grandparents, I was extremely anti-medication. In general, I still am, for myself. It's not right to impose that view on others. You'll see why in a couple of paragraphs. I've been technically focused, on a daily basis, since I was a kid…

I would actually like to know if you had dosed this morning. This is a rather lengthy narrative! If you had(not) dosed this morning, how would you have written this differently? Thanks for giving your two-cents and personal experience. Most of my friends, myself included, use amphetamines for recreational purposes. There's been a vague understanding that it works differently for people with ADHD, though I've never pe…

> I would actually like to know if you had dosed this morning.

I'm curious as well. I've come to use long (but informative) rambles as an ad-hoc indicator of the kind of executive function deficit typical of ADHD. Folks who can write short, crystal-clear, on-point emails are unlikely to be (untreated) ADHD.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#230

Post by Diederich »

Strangework wrote: post #220
Diederich wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can speak to the long-term effects of two people taking adderall/ritalin. I started taking them about 14 years ago, when I was in early 30s. Being raised by my great depression era grandparents, I was extremely anti-medication. In general, I still am, for myself. It's not right to impose that view on others. You'll see why in a couple of paragraphs. I've been technically focused, on a daily basis, since I was a kid…

I would actually like to know if you had dosed this morning. This is a rather lengthy narrative! If you had(not) dosed this morning, how would you have written this differently? Thanks for giving your two-cents and personal experience. Most of my friends, myself included, use amphetamines for recreational purposes. There's been a vague understanding that it works differently for people with ADHD, though I've never pe…

Thank you for your kind words.

No, I had not taken anything when I wrote that rambling epistle. What you're seeing is a first draft, and since I had to get moving, I had to leave it as such.

Recall that I knew how to concentrate before the meds, it just took a lot more energy. I am naturally at my highest mental energy level in the morning.

Also, those who know me will attest that my default writing style is pretty long-winded and uh..dubiously organized.

If I had gone back to edit it this morning, the wall o' text would have gotten about 1/3 shorter.

Regarding recreational use: I cast neither dispersions or judgments on anyone. Speaking for myself, I can't imagine adderall being a recreational drug. For me, it's not a particularly fun feeling, though it helps me accomplish high-focus tasks, and that feels good.

And just to be clear: our son gives our lives purpose and meaning. Truly he is the purest blessing to us.

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