The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#221

Post by dkonofalski » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:13 PM UTC

ejdyksen wrote: post #178

Daishiman wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 days of battery downtime for replacement is inexcusable. There is no way I can take that time off from being productive. Whereas I can carry a machine that's literally 3 millimiters thicker.

> There is no way I can take that time off from being productive. But surely you (or your workplace) have a backup plan if your laptop needs service that takes a few days. What would you do if you need a new screen, or a new hard drive, or a new fan... It's not like a laptop repair that takes a few days should be a big shock to anyone who's owned a few laptops (Apple or otherwise). By the way, one of the things that…

And, more importantly, you only need to pay for Joint Venture once per organization up to a certain number of computers. The article quickly shoots past the fact that their organization (that they admit has 5 laptops) could have easily justified that cost if it was so important for them to avoid downtime of more than 1 day.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#222

Post by dkonofalski » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:20 PM UTC

rasz_pl wrote: post #125

consto wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect to be able to pop a switch, but there is a difference between integrating the battery with the chassis and gluing the battery, keyboard and logic board together in a way that makes the laptop extremely difficult to service. From what I can tell, to replace the battery on my year old lenovo ultrabook, you need to remove 16 easily accessible cross screws and disconnect a single ribbon cable. That shouldn…

It is not difficult to service .. by a service person. It is simply not user serviceable.

Except that even that's not true. You can service it yourself for pretty cheap by getting a kit from iFixIt. It's just that you need a Torx screwdriver (which comes in the kit). It's absolutely user-serviceable if you have the right tools.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#223

Post by dkonofalski » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:36 PM UTC

jws wrote: post #93

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #5

> Next toss in the problem that Apple thought I didn’t have AppleCare on the machine. This is Apple’s extended warranty. This was despite me showing a receipt that showed that I bought both at the same time. Turns out that if you don’t by the machine from an Apple Store, you have to actually fill out some online form to register your warranty. If you buy at an Apple store, they automatically attach it. Anywhere else,…

The registration is because there exist clever amoral people. If they didn't require you to register the warranty to a particular machine while that machine is still under its original warranty period you could buy one AppleCare and wait to see which of a number of machines broke, then register it for that one. Better yet, buy a bunch of AppleCares each month then sell them a year later on a secondary market to peopl…

Apple actually does have exactly this refund program. They will refund you an AppleCare that hasn't been activated. Unfortunately, they're not going to do that if you choose to buy it from a third-party. They're not going to refund you for a purchase that wasn't made from them. If you buy AppleCare from an Apple Store, they'll offer to register it for you right away.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#224

Post by wodenokoto » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:38 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #69

rayiner wrote: post #11

Out of warranty battery service on a Mac ranges from $130-200: https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=Unite... . I think that's a reasonable price considering Lenovo charges $140 for a 75-watt hour 68+ battery for the T450s: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/0C52862/460/D91DC49... . And for $130-200, they will replace your top-case (including keyboard and touchpad). I have had it done more than…

The article mentions that the actual work takes a few hours, but the wait to get the machine actually serviced was 3 days. That is totally store dependent and very clear in the article.

What isn't clear is why he needs to part with his machine for 3 days.

Why can't they schedule they swap, and have him come in and wait?

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#225

Post by dkonofalski » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:38 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #15

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #5

> Next toss in the problem that Apple thought I didn’t have AppleCare on the machine. This is Apple’s extended warranty. This was despite me showing a receipt that showed that I bought both at the same time. Turns out that if you don’t by the machine from an Apple Store, you have to actually fill out some online form to register your warranty. If you buy at an Apple store, they automatically attach it. Anywhere else,…

um..... I am under the impression ALL apple product gets their one year warranty when they first start the machine, which it will register itself. There should be no form to fill in, and this sounds very un Apple.

Yes, but they're not talking about the 1 year warranty. They're talking about the AppleCare extended warranty that the author of the article purchased from a third-party and never registered with Apple. There was no way for Apple to know that this person had purchased the extended warranty but yet he expected them to.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#226

Post by dkonofalski » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:47 PM UTC

somewheres wrote: post #150

JasonSage wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The greatest sin of all, though. The hands-down WORST crime committed, is when the hardware IS PLUGGED INTO A POWER SOURCE, BUT REFUSES TO POWER ON BECAUSE "THE BATTERY NEEDS TO CHARGE FIRST." I don't know this for sure, but I'm guessing that the device waits until it has enough charge to boot properly. Otherwise, if you disconnect the power source the computer does not have enough power to finish booting and will…

If it's plugged in, it can boot. Anything else is a malignant abomination masquerading as design. No exceptions.

That seems an awful lot like an opinion rather than an objective assessment. Yes, if it's plugged in, it can boot. If it gets unplugged, though, as laptops are wont to do, it can't. Ensuring that a laptop is, at a minimum, usable without power before allowing a boot seems like an excellent design.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#227

Post by wodenokoto » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:50 PM UTC

jo909 wrote: post #144

jhrrsn wrote: post #25

Over the course of my professional life with laptops, I've used Apple, Alienware, Dell and Lenovo machines. I can safely say that the three-day turnaround in an actual bricks & mortar store offered by Apple is far and away the best service I've ever received (the worst being a two-week wait that didn't resolve the issue!). Regarding the business-level support, I think it's fair enough for the store to deliver a basel…

When my Lenovo Thinkpad has a hardware problem, a technician comes to my home or office to repair it.

For free?

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#228

Post by branchan » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:51 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #168

pbreit wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much smarter to optimize for every day use than the 0 or 1 time you replace the battery.

4 days of battery downtime for replacement is inexcusable. There is no way I can take that time off from being productive. Whereas I can carry a machine that's literally 3 millimiters thicker.

The article says you can continue using the computer without harm if you keep it plugged in. Surely you can work on your computer while it's plugged in while you look for a spare laptop?

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#229

Post by branchan » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:54 PM UTC

andrelaszlo wrote: post #26

dchuk wrote: post #4

Isn't this sort of a cake-and-eat-it-too situation? If you want a slim, lightweight laptop that still performs at a high level, you can't expect the old pop out batteries with the little switch we grew up with on laptops. While $400 is expensive to replace a battery, it's obviously not as simple as just popping a new one in, which is the compromise one has to make if they want a Macbook Pro. If you want easily swappa…

Is this a trade-off that most buyers are aware of? I'm not sure it's as simple as "shaving off a couple of millimeters", but if that's the case I know I would personally trade those millimeters for better serviceability, especially the day I realize I need a new battery. I was thinking about switching to a Macbook Pro, but for me this is just another argument to go with something else. Can't deny that the hardware is…

I expect the consumers to do adequate research before plunking down over a grand on a new laptop.

Re: The Nightmare of Replacing a Battery on a Mac Laptop

#230

Post by matthewmacleod » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:56 PM UTC

somewheres wrote: post #214

matthewmacleod wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid battery warning meters are a lie, and a waste of valuable power. No, they're not. Knowing the charge of a battery accurately is essential to managing the performance of a lithium battery; they're pretty sensitive to this stuff. If you have enough power to show me that you don't have power, I know your battery meter is full of shit. It means the board can still operate, and is probably performing a small subset…

Again, this is down to the sensitivity of lithium batteries. If the charge of the battery falls below the minimum safe level, the device will charge it before allowing you to take power. There are a couple of reasons – it's important to make sure the battery doesn't fall into deep discharge, and to ensure that device power isn't immediately cut off (=hard crash) if the user subsequently disconnects the power before t…

It's more complex than you claim – I've worked with a few of these systems.

There are a lot of edge cases; consider that in some cases devices being used a full-blast power can draw more current when operating then a charging device can supply, meaning they can still discharge batteries even when AC power is available. (Apple example – smaller power adapter than supplied. Still technically works to charge, but not supply power. Or any arbitrary 500mA USB charger.)

Yeah, I don't doubt that you could probably engineer something that works. But would the complexity be worth it? Probably not. The fact that every modern device (Apple and otherwise) behave this way should suggest that it's not that easy – if it were, it wouldn't be implemented that way.