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Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

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Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's perverse about the logic here? Alaskans say: we're okay with people using marijuana. And the Feds say: that's great, but we're not okay with it and as long as it involves interstate transportation or the coastal waters of the United States, we'll arrest you for it. That's precisely the separation of state and federal power the founders envisioned.

All it takes is you sending a picture postcard using the US Postal Service during your 'crime' to make it a federal thing. This sort of hack to elevate crimes to federal level has been abused plenty of drugs cases in the past, so that separation of state and federal powers is mostly a matter of decorum, if the feds want to be involved in a case they will be.

How is it a "hack" for the federal government to assert jurisdiction over a crime that involved the use of a federal service?

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it takes is you sending a picture postcard using the US Postal Service during your 'crime' to make it a federal thing. This sort of hack to elevate crimes to federal level has been abused plenty of drugs cases in the past, so that separation of state and federal powers is mostly a matter of decorum, if the feds want to be involved in a case they will be.

How is it a "hack" for the federal government to assert jurisdiction over a crime that involved the use of a federal service?

The postal service being used within a state should not make a non-federal crime a federal crime. "Not crossing state lines" versus "using a service that could be used to cross state lines".

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#213
post #201
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just proved my point! Doctors who work in a group practice have a fiduciary duty to grow revenue. Does that mean doctors cut corners to make more money? I'm sure some do. Do private prisons fight relaxing laws to make more money? I'm sure some do, but most don't.

> Do private prisons fight relaxing laws to make more money? I'm sure some do, but most don't. Corrections Corporation of America does , and they account for more than 80,000 of the 133,000 private prison beds in the US. GEO Group does , and they account for about 49,000. Together they thus represents the vast majority of private prisons in the US. Both of them are part of ALEC - a DC base lobbying group that develop…

But are they doing it to make more money? Or because they believe in the legislation?

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#214
post #204
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe for you expanding rights and removing rights is the same thing. For me, it's not. Actually, I remember there was such thing as a Constitution where some guys wrote that people have the rights and government should be restricted in curtailing these rights, and they seemed to think that people's rights are preferable and government restrictions can be made only in specific limited areas. But what do they kn…

> I remember there was such thing as a Constitution where some guys wrote that people have the rights and government should be restricted in curtailing these rights, and they seemed to think that people's rights are preferable and government restrictions can be made only in specific limited areas. I think you're jumbling up various documents there. > After all, Jim Crow laws were approved by many courts and were cons…

No, what leads you to Iran is the stance "if it's legal then it's OK". There are a lot of things that are legal but not OK, and when pointed to something that is not OK arguing "but it is legal!" is exactly the confusion in which you implicate me. My argument is exactly that - that what the Feds are doing is immoral and makes no sense. "But separation of powers!" is an Iran-like answer to this, if you like such comparisons - it's just saying "who cares about moral if we have the laws that we ourselves crafted that allow us to do what we want".

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#215
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just boggles the mind how perversely government logic looks here. So Alaskans say: we are OK with people using marijuana, we see no problem with it. And then the Feds come and say - well, we are still going to arrest and imprison you if you do it, despite the clear will of the people of Alaska, because we can. We know we don't actually change anything as we absolutely can not prevent people of Alaska from using ma…

What's perverse about the logic here? Alaskans say: we're okay with people using marijuana. And the Feds say: that's great, but we're not okay with it and as long as it involves interstate transportation or the coastal waters of the United States, we'll arrest you for it. That's precisely the separation of state and federal power the founders envisioned.

The perverse part is that people who are supposed to protect the rights of the Alaskans are instead actively working to deny them those rights, while hiding behind the flimsy excuse of "separation of state". It's definitely not what the founders envisioned - the "commerce clause" - the reason-to-go for every federal power expansion now - was meant to prevent trade bareers between states, not to allow the Feds to suppress state decisions under the guise of "oh, it might influence the price of marijuana in other states, so it's commerce, so we can do whatever we want". Calling this "precisely what the founders envisioned" is just laughable.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress makes the laws, the Executive enforces them, SCOTUS determines their Constitutionality. So in fact, one check that the Executive can have on the Legislative is in not enforcing laws.

There is an obligation on the part of the executive to enforce the laws passed by congress. The constitution requires that he "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." Clearly there's some room for prioritization and allocation of scarce resources but he can't just ignore them. The Executive's check on the legislative branch is the veto power.

There is a concept of prosecutorial discretion, and the current administration is not shy at all of using it.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#217
post #214
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remember there was such thing as a Constitution where some guys wrote that people have the rights and government should be restricted in curtailing these rights, and they seemed to think that people's rights are preferable and government restrictions can be made only in specific limited areas. I think you're jumbling up various documents there. > After all, Jim Crow laws were approved by many courts and were cons…

No, what leads you to Iran is the stance "if it's legal then it's OK". There are a lot of things that are legal but not OK, and when pointed to something that is not OK arguing "but it is legal!" is exactly the confusion in which you implicate me. My argument is exactly that - that what the Feds are doing is immoral and makes no sense. "But separation of powers!" is an Iran-like answer to this, if you like such compa…

> what leads you to Iran is the stance "if it's legal then it's OK".

Nope. What I said is that, if it's legal then it's OK from a legal perspective, which is a tautology really and I can't believe I'm still explaining it to you.

> "But separation of powers!" is an Iran-like answer to this

To the contrary, the Iranian answer is to implicate moral into everything so that the law has to answer to "superior values", and to be honest I struggle to understand how you could fail to see this (unless you don't really know how Iran runs -- hint: religious/moral authority trumps regular law).

Separation of powers starts with the "two swords" of religious and temporal power being handled in different ways by different people, back when these topics were first seriously discussed in Europe (one could argue that the "unto Caesar" line is the start of this particular debate, but it was basically ignored for centuries afterwards). When people realized that this separation alone was not enough of a guarantee, they split it further (roughly along Montesquieu's lines) exactly so that nobody could inflict its own personal moral code on the whole of the community without the community agreeing first. When the community changes its stance (because of moral or technical changes or whatever), then it collectively agrees that laws should change, and new law supersedes old law. This is how the system should work in a democratic society (which is not to say that's actually what happens, but it's the ideal we strive for, so to speak).

Law shouldn't answer to anything but future law. The US Constitution lives about most other laws, but it's still "just" law.

That is how progress is achieved and how we can all live together without starting religious wars every other day.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but as far as I am aware, international borders fall under federal jurisdiction, not state. U.S. Border Patrol is a federal organization, for instance. Since marijuana is still illegal under federal law, I'd imagine that Alaska state law couldn't protect you in the event of a seizure. I don't have any personal experience attempting to bring weed across a federal border point, but my gut tells me it's not a gre…

I'm curious as to how the Washington-Oregon border will be treated, since both states now have legal marijuana. Will the states allow marijuana from the other to cross over? Does "crossing the state line" make it easier to enforce federal anti-drug laws?

From marijuana.oregon.gov:

  Q: Can I take marijuana into Washington where they also allow recreational marijuana?
  A: No. You can not take marijuana across state lines.
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