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Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

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Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#191

Post by refurb »

sv123 wrote: post #177
refurb wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm questioning why the assumption is that they support drug laws because it makes them money. They may be supporting it for other reasons (strongly support law and order).

They have a duty to their shareholders to grow revenue and stay in business. If something threatens that, they will fight it. Like many other commercial enterprise they will spend money on lobbying to protect profits, in this case it is just particularly sickening how big the problem has become. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsBDvxy5qQY

You just proved my point! Doctors who work in a group practice have a fiduciary duty to grow revenue. Does that mean doctors cut corners to make more money? I'm sure some do.

Do private prisons fight relaxing laws to make more money? I'm sure some do, but most don't.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#192

Post by dbrannan »

jerrysievert wrote: post #186
dbrannan wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that small amounts of pot has been legal in Alaska, but my concern is geared towards greater accessibility. Now that it is legal and will be sold commercially it will be much easier for young adults to attain. Usually the youth will steal from their guardians, just like alcohol. I've been teaching 21 years and I can tell when a student has started smoking pot. When a young person begins smoking their grade…

While I agree that someone whose brain is not developed should not be using mind-altering anything, what you described is essentially puberty. Heck, these kids shouldn't be drinking coffee or caffeinated soda, either.

I can clearly see the popular opinion (reddit/hacker news) is that marijuana is harmless. My professional opinion is different, however, and over the course of my career I have seen its affects first hand. Laugh and down vote me if you will, but the negative affects are real and damaging to youth and the research backs me up.

http://www.livescience.com/37889-marijuana-users-lack-motiva...

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#193

Post by smsm42 »

TylerE wrote: post #152
smsm42 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking not about "anything". We're talking about specific thing where the law enforcement enforces arbitrary prohibition against the will of the same people they pretend to protect. Comparing this to Jim Crow laws makes no sense - Jim Crow laws limited people's rights, legalization expands people's rights. Jim Crow laws was an arbitrary governmental restriction, legalization removes the arbitrary governmental…

30 years spent living in the deep south. Maybe it wouldn't hit 51% but I guarantee you it would be a lot higher than 10%. You're also assuming equal voter turnout and no voter suppresion. These are both, shall we say, optimistic.

Of course, I'm pretty sure there are racists in the south - as well as everywhere else, this is a common mental malady, which, like lice, often manifests itself when proper hygiene is not maintained. However the claim that virtually all white population is so racist as to wish for return of Jim Crow laws feels a bit strong to me. As for voter turnout, it looks like specifically for Mississippi it's not that bad: http://www.governing.com/blogs/by-the-numbers/changes-in-vot... and actually white voters' numbers are lower than black voters', while overall turnout is one of the highest in the nation - it looks like MS citizens take their voting seriously. Overall, 82% turnout doesn't sound bad at all, and if the hypothetical vote would be on something as outrageous as Jim Crow laws, I would think these numbers would further increase.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#194

Post by WildUtah »

mikeash wrote: post #77
kyleblarson wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Seattleite I was optimistic things might change at the federal level when Obama appointed Kerlikowski as drug czar, given his experience as police chief in what even in 2009 was a very cannabis friendly city. I guess I was just another sucker for hope and change that never materialized.

Marijuana laws are up to Congress, not the executive. They have discretion in how they enforce the laws to an extent, but they shouldn't just ignore them.

The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 grants the head of the Food and Drug Administration authority to designate and remove illegal drugs from the schedules of controlled substances. The FDA can remove marijuana at any time and as long as the DEA director doesn't object, that is the law.

The DEA and FDA directors serve at the pleasure of the president. Thus, Obama can legalize marijuana if he wants to. He doesn't remotely want to.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#195

Post by 72deluxe »

kmnc wrote: post #127
dbrannan wrote: post #119

I live in Alaska as a high school teacher. We lead the nation in welfare, alcohol abuse and fetal alcohol effects, suicide, sexually transmitted disease, credit card debt, number of women murdered, and domestic abuse. Now we are all going to be high as a kite, too. This does not make my job any easier.

So, basically every thing you listed can probably be directly related to Alcohol Abuse. Maybe, just maybe, giving people a healthier and less abusive vice will make your job easier.

I got into a lot of credit card debt once in my life. It was not related to alcohol abuse at all. That's a pretty big assumption you make there.

Thankfully none of those other items have ever been in my life.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#196

Post by 72deluxe »

dbrannan wrote: post #192
jerrysievert wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that someone whose brain is not developed should not be using mind-altering anything, what you described is essentially puberty. Heck, these kids shouldn't be drinking coffee or caffeinated soda, either.

I can clearly see the popular opinion (reddit/hacker news) is that marijuana is harmless. My professional opinion is different, however, and over the course of my career I have seen its affects first hand. Laugh and down vote me if you will, but the negative affects are real and damaging to youth and the research backs me up. http://www.livescience.com/37889-marijuana-users-lack-motiva...

My teenage relative's schoolmate went from being an excellent student and actress to a severe down-and-out in a short space of time due to her marijuana use. Likely other things contributed but the change was radical.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#198

Post by jacquesm »

rayiner wrote: post #180
smsm42 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just boggles the mind how perversely government logic looks here. So Alaskans say: we are OK with people using marijuana, we see no problem with it. And then the Feds come and say - well, we are still going to arrest and imprison you if you do it, despite the clear will of the people of Alaska, because we can. We know we don't actually change anything as we absolutely can not prevent people of Alaska from using ma…

What's perverse about the logic here? Alaskans say: we're okay with people using marijuana. And the Feds say: that's great, but we're not okay with it and as long as it involves interstate transportation or the coastal waters of the United States, we'll arrest you for it. That's precisely the separation of state and federal power the founders envisioned.

All it takes is you sending a picture postcard using the US Postal Service during your 'crime' to make it a federal thing.

This sort of hack to elevate crimes to federal level has been abused plenty of drugs cases in the past, so that separation of state and federal powers is mostly a matter of decorum, if the feds want to be involved in a case they will be.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#199

Post by vidarh »

larssorenson wrote: post #73
toyg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis and opium poppies cannot be used to produce the same end-product. From what I understand, hemp can replace cotton in most end-products; being much easier to grow (and hence cheaper / more plentiful), it could potentially flood markets earlier reserved to cotton, hence depressing prices. Say you have two farmers; one grows cannabis, the other cotton. Because cannabis is easier to grow, the cannabis farmer has…

Interesting, I was not aware that this sort of situation could spring up. But I don't think this should be a reason behind retaining criminalization of marijuana. To those who tout "Free Market" and "True Capitalism," it should be plainly clear that hemp should be allowed to fill the market if it can provide a better or comparable product at a better price. While I don't necessarily think we should necessarily promot…

A lot of those touting "Free Market" and "True Capitalism" adds as a footnote "as long as it doesn't add more competition for me".

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#200

Post by corin_ »

chaostheory wrote: post #144
sliverstorm wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the point is the black market wanted Prop. 19 defeated, because if you legalize it they lose their profits. (Some parts of) the black market wants drugs to say illegal.

Yes but has there been evidence of the cartels funding political campaigns in the US?

If they were it would almost certainly be through a front in such a way that it wasn't publicly known about unless/until a scandal broke stopping that particular incident. As to whether that's likely to be happening... I've absolutely no idea, for all I know it could be extremely likely, or conspiracy theory level.
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