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Reform Government Surveillance

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Re: Reform Government Surveillance

#211

Post by atmosx »

raverbashing wrote: post #171
dnr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading stories a few years ago about how facebook employees used to spy on love interests. I'm sure there are better access controls in place these days, though.

It's one thing, even if still completely unacceptable, for an employee to spy using one media. Another one is for someone to "throw the net" and get information on several fronts (possibly including: credit report, bank info, emails, etc)

However, if anyone at google or facebook gets caught doing that, it will have a hard time finding a job. At the NSA is probably encouraged behavior and I'm pretty no one is loosing his job over spying someone there, it's what they do after all.

Re: Reform Government Surveillance

#212

Post by MBlume »

pacala wrote: post #15

This is getting ridiculous. The ad empires built on stalking every single breath of every single human want to take governments to task on the topic of stalking. What about cleaning up your own house first? 1. Limiting Corporations’ Authority to Collect Users’ Information Corporations should codify sensible limitations on their ability to collect and disclose user data that balance their need for the data in limited…

I am so fucking sick of this false equivalence between Facebook having my data and the government having my data. The government has big fucking guns. If they see something in my data they don't like, they can shoot me, or threaten to shoot me until I walk into a cage. Facebook can't.

Re: Reform Government Surveillance

#213

Post by nl »

hooande wrote: post #116
pg wrote: post #19

Among other things, this is the tipping point for how Snowden will be viewed. If all these powerful companies agree, in an unprecedented show of unanimity, that this is an important problem, then Snowden is ipso facto a hero for bringing it to our attention. The curious thing is, I feel the linkage works in the other direction too. If Snowden had been caught and was now having his brains scrambled by solitary confine…

There is nothing more reviled by people who were born during the cold war than a criminal who defects first to china and then to russia. No amount of tech industry pr can facilitate a comeback from that. Almost half of the people in this country will always see Snowden as a traitor. Government surveillance has become a political wedge issue, similar to abortion. No one likes it or encourages it but people have strong…

There is nothing more reviled by people who were born during the cold war than a criminal who defects first to china and then to russia. No amount of tech industry pr can facilitate a comeback from that. Almost half of the people in this country will always see Snowden as a traitor.

I was born during the cold war.

I remember the outrage when it was found that the East German secret police (the Stasi) had files on 1/3 of the population of East Germany.

I remember the commentators telling us how no one in the Western, Free world would ever stand for it, and how it could never happen.

Re: Reform Government Surveillance

#216

Post by ericd »

rayiner wrote: post #167
couchand wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the same "surveillance apparatus [that] saw America through the Cold War." It's simply not comparable to even just fifteen years ago. The changes in technology and the self-satisfied attitude of the spooks have changed the game entirely. Half of the people in this country are deluding themselves just like you.

Here's the thing: I don't even disagree with you. But "technology changes everything" is an argument that, while it resonates with a certain subset of people, is simply not compelling standing alone to many others. The tech community has the challenge of explaining to a generation that went from black & white TV to smart phones (and saw manned space travel, supersonic aircraft, and the nuclear arms race in-between),…

It seems like you could pretty easily explain it in terms of having a million virtual police listening to all calls at once versus the old way, which involved humans, and so naturally limited itself to conversations of interest.

Re: Reform Government Surveillance

#217

Post by AYBABTME »

teamgb wrote: post #175
coffeemug wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing more reviled by people who were born during the cold war than a criminal who defects first to china and then to russia. I am a Russian American and I see this the other way around. The fact that Snowden had to escape to Russia (of all places!) to maintain his freedom is an indictment of the sorry state of affairs in the U.S. Traditionally the U.S. has been a beacon of hope for political prisoners and…

It seems odd because Russia always gets demonized in the media. It's always the same: mafia, corruption, hackers... I can't remember the last time a positive story was published in the English speaking press. The Thai government have just dissolved parliament and called new elections due to protests. Can you imagine that happening in many so-called "democratic" Western states? You can't even get a crack-smoking mayor…

Crack smoking mayor has popular support...!

Re: Reform Government Surveillance

#218

Post by eggspurt »

pg wrote: post #19

Among other things, this is the tipping point for how Snowden will be viewed. If all these powerful companies agree, in an unprecedented show of unanimity, that this is an important problem, then Snowden is ipso facto a hero for bringing it to our attention. The curious thing is, I feel the linkage works in the other direction too. If Snowden had been caught and was now having his brains scrambled by solitary confine…

Snowden with NSA should be considered to be white hat hackers: they demonstrated the inadequacy of private information protection by Google and other companies https://medium.com/p/1bcff7c0f25f

Re: Reform Government Surveillance

#219

Post by ptaffs »

veidr wrote: post #132
hooande wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing more reviled by people who were born during the cold war than a criminal who defects first to china and then to russia. No amount of tech industry pr can facilitate a comeback from that. Almost half of the people in this country will always see Snowden as a traitor. Government surveillance has become a political wedge issue, similar to abortion. No one likes it or encourages it but people have strong…

> There is nothing more reviled by people who were born during the cold war than a criminal who defects first to china and then to russia. I was born during the Cold War and I don't see it that way. In fact, I think you have it precisely backwards. I remember being alive when the USSR and East Germany were going concerns, and those countries seemed so horrible -- the USA really was on what any sane person (by my defi…

Mikko Hypponen said some interesting things in a recent TED talk http://www.ted.com/talks/mikko_hypponen_how_the_nsa_betrayed... and specifically emphasises the point that until the whistleblow, we didn't know about the surveilance. Anyone who suggested the government was capturing or listening to calls was branded a crackpot or tin-foil hat wearer. These are Mikko's points.

Re: Reform Government Surveillance

#220

Post by vjvj »

What a feeble attempt at reform.

In particular, the sentence copied below makes it sound like just another summer new story that will soon fade into insignificance:

"But this summer’s revelations highlighted the urgent need to reform government surveillance practices worldwide"

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