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Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

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Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#211

Post by Tor3 »

the_gastropod wrote: post #116
MegaDeKay wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.

These problems are (imo) vastly overblown for the way most people drive. The only time the cold temperature reduced range / reduced charge speed are relevant is for long road trips where you’re driving > ~200mi at once. Otherwise, you just charge up at home overnight and easily recoup any normal driving range you used during the day, regardless of the temperature. Norwegians have apparently figured this out. Despite…

As others said, Norway isn't that cold - the ocean is pretty warm. That does mean, however, that the temperature varies greatly with how far you are from the sea. Go far enough inland and it can get cold. -30C or, even these days, some places much colder, though only for shorter periods now (global warming). Most places are barely as cold as -10C, which isn't much of a problem for batteries. And it's often a bit warmer.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#212

Post by Tor3 »

simondotau wrote: post #119
chem83 wrote: post #18

I always thought the problem with hybrids was the complexity of the drive train, but this video is challenging that notion. It argues that the hybrid pack (minus the battery, perhaps?) is more compact and simpler than a manual gearbox, even. It consists of two electric motors and a planetary gear set, which is seemingly simpler than clutch packs, gear sets and belts of regular transmissions, including CVTs. Time code…

It might be simpler than a regular gearbox, but so what? That tech is already commoditised, and generally very reliable. The engine - not the transmission - is the biggest pain point with ICE vehicles. It’s what needs constant maintenance and fluid changes.

> The engine [...] neds constant maintenance and fluid changes.

I drive my ICE to the dealership once a year, and one hour later the above is all done (in the meantime I drink coffee and read a book nearby). Once a year. I wouldn't call that "constant maintenance and fluid changes". It's "yearly", as in "once a year".

I will be getting an EV in the future (we're setting up our house with solar and a V2H system - Vehicle To House), but that's not because an ICE needs constant engine maintenance. It doesn't.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#213

Post by harrouet »

jghn wrote: post #137
harrouet wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a plug-in hybrid and, although it was not my initial opinion, I came to think that it is the most adapted tech to my usage: - I do 90% of my kilometers to commute to work: 2x40km / day - I need my car to drive 7 hours roughly 4x or 5x per year In my case, I can drive electric to commute to work, as I can charge sporadically (can't do it at home). When driving long distance, I get to use the ICE while charging…

Why not rent a car for those 4-5x/year?

Maybe I could cope with the inconvenience of queuing 45 min to get a car from a leading rental brand that, although they see me regularly, always need to re-enter my documents in their system (go figure...).

But the main reason is that those 4-5x/year are when everyone goes on week-end or vacations. Therefore prices are sky-high and availability is not guaranteed.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#214

Post by harrouet »

pjmlp wrote: post #187
lmm wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on the Mediterranean islands usually rental is the only option It's not like buying an ICE or hybrid instead of an EV helps with this scenario at all.

Ferries exist.

Sure: a cabin + a car between Barcelona to Mallorca cost 500€.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#215

Post by ZeroGravitas »

tzs wrote: post #165
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

> After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense In some places in the US the hybrid can have lower energy costs per mile. Using the average price/kWh of residential electricity and the average price/gallon of gasoline in each US state as of maybe a year ago (I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while) a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MP…

MIT has a site called Carboncounter that lets you do this for lots of models at the same time.

http://www.carboncounter.com

You can customize the costs for various thing and it has state level presests. You can also set PHEV utilisation factor etc.

I'm not sure how up to date it is, I see 2025 model cars listed but you can tweak gas cost, tax credits etc. if they have changed.

The very cheapest cars seem to still be ICE, not hybrid or EV but different state incentives/fuel costs varies it dramatically.

And you have to consider some other things like is the Nissan Versa ICE a comparable car to the Nissan Leaf EV? The former seems cheaper to run in the USA.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#216

Post by robocat »

tzs wrote: post #165
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

> After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense In some places in the US the hybrid can have lower energy costs per mile. Using the average price/kWh of residential electricity and the average price/gallon of gasoline in each US state as of maybe a year ago (I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while) a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MP…

> For people who do not have home charging or cheap destination charging and have to rely on public DC charging stations the Prius wins in most states

I'm guessing you are assuming that either (a) your time is worth. $0/hour so that waiting time for charging costs you nothing or (b) you have a situation where you can charge while doing some other needful activity.

Filling with petrol is relatively quick and gas stations are everywhere. But still wastes some time.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#217

Post by mint5 »

jghn wrote: post #137
harrouet wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a plug-in hybrid and, although it was not my initial opinion, I came to think that it is the most adapted tech to my usage: - I do 90% of my kilometers to commute to work: 2x40km / day - I need my car to drive 7 hours roughly 4x or 5x per year In my case, I can drive electric to commute to work, as I can charge sporadically (can't do it at home). When driving long distance, I get to use the ICE while charging…

Why not rent a car for those 4-5x/year?

So hertz can report your car stolen after you return it, landing you in jail?

Renting a car comes with extra worry, even taking that extreme case out of consideration.

You’re driving around a break in magnet, advertising that it contains suitcases.

It comes with highly restricted rules - technically it violates Avis’s rental agreement to pull off onto a dirt median even if you have a flat tire or ever need to drive on a dirt parking lot - strictly anything unpaved like a national park campground site’s parking.

And you’ll reserve one particular car type, who knows what they’ll actually give you. And the tires may be sketchy too (had that)

And they’re be trying ti upsell you all sorts of horrible deals when you reserve and then pick up

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#218

Post by zardo »

CobaltFire wrote: post #197
avgDev wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 1 child and need a big car, such as Honda Pilot. We are active. We travel. My son plays sports. I need a 2 inch hitch for our heavy ebikes. I also need 5k towing a few times a year. I do have a 2nd economy car, and I like driving smaller cars anyway, but having one big car is nice.

I have a van that does all of that better. Seriously. Mercedes Metris, and I average 27MPG driving it like I do my Leaf. It's also amazing for going to the water and being able to change in it, going skiing and being able to dress out, etc. SUV's are hugely overrated. I have a 4WD (GX470) and honestly we rarely ever drive it because even for fire roads the van is more than capable enough. That said, it IS a niche veh…

Yeah, a van is the real sport utility vehicle.

And yeah, people hugely misunderstand needing 4WD. If you aren't off-roading it's not doing much for you.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#219

Post by ProllyInfamous »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #215
tzs wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense In some places in the US the hybrid can have lower energy costs per mile. Using the average price/kWh of residential electricity and the average price/gallon of gasoline in each US state as of maybe a year ago (I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while) a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MP…

MIT has a site called Carboncounter that lets you do this for lots of models at the same time. http://www.carboncounter.com You can customize the costs for various thing and it has state level presests. You can also set PHEV utilisation factor etc. I'm not sure how up to date it is, I see 2025 model cars listed but you can tweak gas cost, tax credits etc. if they have changed. The very cheapest cars seem to still be…

Wow -- Nissan TITAN and Chevry BLAZER doing their part to guzzle gasolina!

I used this to compare hybrid Camry v. RAV4 – both are clustered on the opposite side of the diagram.

Thanks for the neat link! I went from a turbocharged Subaru to a Toyota hybrid... and the performance is similar with 2.25x the mileage (and no premium gas)! It's neat getting 50+ mpg and still being able to accelerate.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#220

Post by Molitor5901 »

ferongr wrote: post #179
Molitor5901 wrote: post #24

My experience with hybrids have been.... mostly positive, good mileage, Toyota's drive very well, but.. I would not buy one for one pedantic, silly reason: I hate the government mandated banshee howling sound. Many ICE vehicles are just as quiet as an EV without the fake noise, and while I am not discounting that quiet vehicles can pose a hazard to pedestrians, the howling is just.. utterly obnoxious.

A few drops of superglue into the speaker should work wonders. Probably very easy to DIY on your driveway in a few minutes.

That's a really good idea. I only worry about invalidating a warranty. As soon as the dealer finds out..
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