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How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

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Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#211

Post by DANmode »

try_the_bass wrote: post #145
Teever wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that frees the people with a conscience to work on endeavours that challenge these corrupt institutions. That’s a good thing. It isn’t really a radical or counterintuitive thing to say ‘don’t do evil work for evil people.’ People who give mealy mouth excuses like ‘I was just following orders’ or ‘I was just a contractor’ are part of the problem.

> Yes that frees the people with a conscience to work on endeavours that challenge these corrupt institutions. That... Isn't really how that works in the real world, though. What happens when people with conscience leave legitimate institutions is that they lose legitimacy. Now you have a legitimate institution with power and no conscience, and a myriad of non-legitimate institutions with little power and some consci…

> That... Isn't really how that works in the real world, though.

It has in the past.

What changed?

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#212

Post by bigfatkitten »

globalnode wrote: post #155
hackthemack wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is my understanding that the US Government set up a system, long, long ago, where the British would spy on Americans and then the British would supply the information to the NSA, thereby the NSA is not technically spying on American citizens. Words mean nothing. They can be interpreted how ever they need to be interpreted by those in power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

australia and america have the same agreement. these countries may be dragons but live in fear of losing their hoard (borrowing that analogy from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47963204 )

> australia and america have the same agreement

This has no basis whatsoever in Australian law.

Procuring someone else to do it on your behalf is still an offence under s 7(1) of the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979 (Cth).

TELECOMMUNICATIONS (INTERCEPTION AND ACCESS) ACT 1979 - SECT 7

Telecommunications not to be intercepted (1) A person shall not:

  (a)   intercept;

  (b)   authorize, suffer or permit another person to intercept; or

  (c)   do any act or thing that will enable him or her or another person to intercept;
a communication passing over a telecommunications system.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#213

Post by bigfatkitten »

anonymousiam wrote: post #77
dylan604 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike Snowden, I kept this to myself because I had signed (many) NDAs with the US Government. You say this like you are proud of it. Admittedly, I cannot say what I would do in that situation as I've never been in that situation, but I'd hope I'd have the fortitude to speak up on it. Having employees/contractors doing tasks that are illegal just because they came from the higher ups is no different than soldiers r…

I'm not proud of it at all. The revelation was startling to me, and I was pretty unhappy about it. It was done in the name of "stopping bad people from doing bad things", but it was still illegal (at least in the white world). Snowden had the same dilemma. He was asking the NSA lawyers about the legality of their programs, and he never got an honest answer. Quitting would not have stopped the activity, and disclosing…

[dead]

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#216

Post by DANmode »

timschmidt wrote: post #143
galangalalgol wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracy in general exhibits that kind of hysteresis. It is like a running average of who has been in charged mixed with a big dose of the culture that people who choose that sort of career create. Ironically, that inertia is considered by political scientists to be a safeguard for democracy.

It hits different when the bureaucracy's job is to collect and exploit secrets, and act in the shadows.

It also “hits different” when you’re the group paying for the bureaucracy.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#217

Post by latexr »

maqp wrote: post #209
amelius wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In 2006?

If a link is submitted to HN and no one comments that you should use an LLM, is it even a real thread?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest_an...

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#218

Post by simsla »

bigfatkitten wrote: post #213
anonymousiam wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not proud of it at all. The revelation was startling to me, and I was pretty unhappy about it. It was done in the name of "stopping bad people from doing bad things", but it was still illegal (at least in the white world). Snowden had the same dilemma. He was asking the NSA lawyers about the legality of their programs, and he never got an honest answer. Quitting would not have stopped the activity, and disclosing…

[dead]

Genuinely curious: what would you have had him do instead?

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#219

Post by DANmode »

bigfatkitten wrote: post #213
anonymousiam wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not proud of it at all. The revelation was startling to me, and I was pretty unhappy about it. It was done in the name of "stopping bad people from doing bad things", but it was still illegal (at least in the white world). Snowden had the same dilemma. He was asking the NSA lawyers about the legality of their programs, and he never got an honest answer. Quitting would not have stopped the activity, and disclosing…

[dead]

Bringing this poorly-informed comment back in order to ask:

on which Murdoch-owned garbage network did you hear that?

“Hong Kong” is not “China”, and if it subjectively is now, was less so at the time.

He was aiming for Ecuador, or similar.

It’s really mostly a matter of politics (and a bit of luck) that he didn’t get scooped up in HK for one intent or another.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/china-persuaded-snowde...

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#220

Post by Atreiden »

bigfatkitten wrote: post #212
globalnode wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

australia and america have the same agreement. these countries may be dragons but live in fear of losing their hoard (borrowing that analogy from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47963204 )

> australia and america have the same agreement This has no basis whatsoever in Australian law. Procuring someone else to do it on your behalf is still an offence under s 7(1) of the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act 1979 (Cth). TELECOMMUNICATIONS (INTERCEPTION AND ACCESS) ACT 1979 - SECT 7 Telecommunications not to be intercepted (1) A person shall not: (a) intercept; (b) authorize, suffer or permit a…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
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