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FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

9to5mac.com

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Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#211

Post by jhatemyjob »

SergeAx wrote: post #207
jhatemyjob wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. You mean the iOS system notification would display the decrypted message in plaintext? Or do you mean the iOS system notification would display the encrypted message (i.e. it would be unreadable)?

The app decrypts the message and displays it via the system notification.

So in that case, the system has access to the plaintext, therefore the Alphabet boys have access to it as well. Unless, of course, you believe Apple isn't cooperating with them.

Am I missing something here? Maybe I'm missing a subtle detail.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#212

Post by jacquesm »

upofadown wrote: post #180

Putting on my user hat... "OK. Signal has forward secrecy. So messages are gone after I receive them. Great!" Oh, you didn't turn on disappearing messages? Oh, right, then forensic tools like Cellebrite can get them. You have to turn on disappearing messages. The default is off. Oh, you did turn on disappearing messages? We send the messages in notifications. So the OS can keep them. Turns out Apple was doing that. T…

People keep pushing signal because it is supposedly secure. But it runs on platforms that are so complex with so much eco system garbage that there is no way know even within a low percentage of confidence if you've done everything required to ensure you are communicating just with the person you think you are. There could be listeners at just about every layer and that is still without looking at the meta-data angle which is just as important (who communicated with who and when, and possibly from where).

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#213

Post by jacquesm »

greysonp wrote: post #107
pigggg wrote: post #106

Just curious, how come at least once a month signal bugs me to turn on notifications? I said no for a reason, every single time - why does it keep asking? Not implying anything evil but it feels a bit weird esp after this.

Signal developer here. It's just because notification reliability is always a top support complaint, and a lot of people turn off notifications and don't realize they've done so. Admittedly, once a month is likely too aggressive.

Any time after a user switches it off on purpose is too aggressive.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#214

Post by tristor »

sneak wrote: post #185
tristor wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disable notifications on every app that is not on the critical path to me earning a living. Notifications are largely unnecessary. Either you are actively engaged with something, in which case you didn't need the notification, or you are doing something else and don't need the distraction, in which case you didn't need the notification. Only my employer gets a right to demand my time during work hours, which is why…

Signal notifications are the #1 thing in the critical path for me earning a living. Isn’t this normal in our industry?

Okay, well you should probably have them enabled then. For me, Signal is for personal messaging. My work messages are mostly Slack, Webex, and Teams.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#215

Post by fn-mote »

satvikpendem wrote: post #101
9dev wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] this is by design of both companies. This is more of a fundamental technical limitation of operating systems and networks; I don't think it is possible to design distributed communication between arbitrary service provider infrastructure and end-user devices without an always-online intermediary reachable from anywhere (a bouncer, in IRC terms) that accepts messages for non-present consumers.

Yes, however the fact that it is not customizable is what is annoying, you are forced to rely only on the OS makers' implementations, which I guess should be expected in the day and age.

It sounds like you’re hinting at being unhappy with the lock-in forced by the ecosystem.

The flip side of the coin: any possibly avenue to exfiltrate data and do (advertising) tracking by app developers will be used. The restrictions also protect my privacy.

And my phone battery.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#216

Post by satvikpendem »

fn-mote wrote: post #215
satvikpendem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, however the fact that it is not customizable is what is annoying, you are forced to rely only on the OS makers' implementations, which I guess should be expected in the day and age.

It sounds like you’re hinting at being unhappy with the lock-in forced by the ecosystem. The flip side of the coin: any possibly avenue to exfiltrate data and do (advertising) tracking by app developers will be used. The restrictions also protect my privacy. And my phone battery.

Clearly they don't protect your privacy as evidenced by the post we're commenting on.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#217

Post by shooly »

ryandrake wrote: post #139
greysonp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We build Signal for everyone, and that includes a lot of people who are not as technologically literate as the average tech worker. For a lot of people, they don't even know they dismissed the notification permission prompt, they were just closing boxes. For them, the reminder is helpful and prevents them from experiencing missing notifications. Striking a balance between helping these people and annoying more techno…

Thanks for the reply. I know it feels noble to do it that way, and I admit I get dogmatic over this one principle: a computer should first and foremost obey the user. It shouldn't have its own agenda. It shouldn't second guess. It shouldn't "did you mean?" I command the computer, and the computer executes that command and then waits for the next command. If I command it to not display a particular output (notificatio…

I'm sure everyone loves it when they accidentally press "Delete", and the app instantly deletes a thing forever without showing any confirmation dialog. After all, if the computer asked you to confirm it, it would mean it disobeyed your direct order!

HN truly never fails to make me laugh when it comes to discussing user experience.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#218

Post by nixosbestos »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #200
nixosbestos wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to what sounds like a feature of the app , not the OS... The app... already chooses what to send through the OS notification API so I really don't have any idea what scenario you're worried about. I generally sympathize, I also don't like when apps block screenshots (or even more stupidly, they can block Android's amazing "select text from anywhere" feature...). But I don't think there are similar conce…

Right. I'm saying most apps shouldn't be allowed to send a notification at all if they're not going to put the proper content in it. As it is, many apps already choose to omit notification body, instead supplying nothing or some noninformative text, forcing you to tap through to the app to see what the notification was about. If Signal is doing anything unusual here, is that it has a switch to enable showing actual c…

I get it. I am stubborn. That behavior results in a polite but direct email/review followed by an uninstall. I'm so tired of being treated like disposable crap by everyone trying to make a buck the cheapest and shittiedt way possible.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#219

Post by fn-mote »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #125
pigggg wrote: post #106

Just curious, how come at least once a month signal bugs me to turn on notifications? I said no for a reason, every single time - why does it keep asking? Not implying anything evil but it feels a bit weird esp after this.

Reminds me what Whatsapp if you set up a 2FA PIN, which forces you to type it about every week to check if you forgot it. So annoying.

Sorry, I really cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not.

One of the TOTP apps had a periodic test that you still knew the paraphrase. It started frequent and then backed off to like once a month. There’s definitely a benefit even if it’s annoying.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#220

Post by shooly »

snhjsdrhrsh wrote: post #158
Forgeties79 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is if they have repeatedly said no

imagine someone shows up to your door and tries to sell you garbage. you ask him to leave and he says he'll show up again soon. and these idiots defend this behavior. at the end of the day, the people on this site are muppets, they just dont like facebook is all.

Does Signal magically show up on people's phones and open itself at random point in time? I have a suspicion, that you might not be too good at this whole "making analogies" thing.
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