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FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

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Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#151

Um. Android has notification history also and I see no similar ability to hide notification content from the system ...

Good. The moment they add it, all kinds of apps will start to abuse it, for "sekhurity" (read: engagement) reasons. See e.g. all the apps that now disallow taking screenshots, for no legitimate reason. Personally I'd be in favor of a hard app store policy, that if an app notifies you about something, all the importantdetails (like full message text) must be included - specifically to allow the user to view the import…

I'm referring to what sounds like a feature of the app, not the OS... The app... already chooses what to send through the OS notification API so I really don't have any idea what scenario you're worried about.

I generally sympathize, I also don't like when apps block screenshots (or even more stupidly, they can block Android's amazing "select text from anywhere" feature...). But I don't think there are similar concerns for Signal allowing me to hide notification content from the OS.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#152

While it's definitely surprising that the OS caches this data after the notifications have been swiped away, I always thought that notifications are an obvious hole in the whole E2E encryption setup.

AIUI, Signal push notifications just saying a message was received. Signal then fetches the E2E encrypted message from the server and decrypts it locally. So Apple/Google cannot read the messages, nor can Signal servers.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#153
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the product worse for everybody because a minority can’t manage their own settings is a terrible strategy.

Do most people keep the notifications disabled for their messaging apps?

I disable notifications on every app that is not on the critical path to me earning a living. Notifications are largely unnecessary. Either you are actively engaged with something, in which case you didn't need the notification, or you are doing something else and don't need the distraction, in which case you didn't need the notification. Only my employer gets a right to demand my time during work hours, which is why notifications are enabled during work hours for work apps.

We as a society have gotten way too comfortable expecting every single person to be available at all times to provide us some kind of immediate response. Let people live. If I'm hiking through the woods with my camera doing bird photography, even if you're my best friend you can wait until I get back to my car and manually check my messages, I don't need a notification. If it's an emergency, dial my number and call me, which will make my phone ring. Novel concept, I know.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#154
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought name-only was the default.

> I thought name-only was the default At least for me, it was name and content.

I may be misremembering, or it may have changed; I've been using Signal from the early days.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why does it keep asking? Why does any software keep asking you to do things you explicitly told them you don't want to do? Because it's in the software developer's best interest to get you to do them, not yours. We've gotten way past the point in software where we no longer expect the software to serve the user's interest and solve the user's problems. Now, the expectation is that the user gets nagged and coerced i…

We build Signal for everyone, and that includes a lot of people who are not as technologically literate as the average tech worker. For a lot of people, they don't even know they dismissed the notification permission prompt, they were just closing boxes. For them, the reminder is helpful and prevents them from experiencing missing notifications. Striking a balance between helping these people and annoying more techno…

[flagged]

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why does it keep asking? Why does any software keep asking you to do things you explicitly told them you don't want to do? Because it's in the software developer's best interest to get you to do them, not yours. We've gotten way past the point in software where we no longer expect the software to serve the user's interest and solve the user's problems. Now, the expectation is that the user gets nagged and coerced i…

We build Signal for everyone, and that includes a lot of people who are not as technologically literate as the average tech worker. For a lot of people, they don't even know they dismissed the notification permission prompt, they were just closing boxes. For them, the reminder is helpful and prevents them from experiencing missing notifications. Striking a balance between helping these people and annoying more techno…

Can you add a "tech-savvy user" mode, off-by-default, that opts out of these sort of reminders?

I think we're capable of finding it ourselves if you do.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#157
iOS Data Protection — The Four Classes

Data Protection is implemented by constructing and managing a hierarchy of keys, building on the hardware encryption technologies built into Apple devices. It's controlled on a per-file basis by assigning each file to a class; accessibility is determined by whether the class keys have been unlocked.

The four protection classes, from strongest to weakest:

NSFileProtectionComplete — Files are only accessible when the device is unlocked.

NSFileProtectionCompleteUnlessOpen — A file can only be opened when the device is unlocked, but is not closed when the device is locked — it's encrypted when the last open handle is closed. Suitable for data being uploaded in the background.

NSFileProtectionCompleteUntilFirstUserAuthentication — The resource cannot be accessed until after the device has booted. After the user unlocks the device for the first time, the app can access the resource and continue to do so even if the user subsequently locks the device. Fortify This is commonly called AFU (After First Unlock). This is the default class for all third-party app data not otherwise assigned to a Data Protection class.

NSFileProtectionNone — The resource has no special protections. It can be read or written at any time. The encryption only uses a key derived from the device's UID.

The BFU/AFU Distinction — The Heart of the Signal Issue

Apple's iOS devices operate in two key security states that directly impact data accessibility: Before First Unlock (BFU) and After First Unlock (AFU).

When an iPhone is in the BFU state, it has been powered on or rebooted but not yet unlocked with a passcode. In this state, the Secure Enclave does not release the decryption keys needed to access most user data.

Once you've unlocked once (AFU), files protected with NSFileProtectionCompleteUntilFirstUserAuthentication become accessible, the Keychain is available, and background processes and apps can access encrypted content as needed.

The Signal notification content issue connects here because notification data (including previews) stored in the default CompleteUntilFirstUserAuthentication class remains decryptable by any process — including OS-level forensic tools — as long as the phone has been unlocked at least once since the last reboot.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Messaging platforms where people receive and promptly respond to messages are more successful in the long run. That's why SMS overtook email. If you own a messaging platform there isn't anything inherently nefarious about pushing people to enable notifications.

There is if they have repeatedly said no

imagine someone shows up to your door and tries to sell you garbage. you ask him to leave and he says he'll show up again soon. and these idiots defend this behavior. at the end of the day, the people on this site are muppets, they just dont like facebook is all.

Re: FBI used iPhone notification data to retrieve deleted Signal messages

#159

Settings > Notifications > Notification Content > Show: "Name Only" or "No Name or Content" I've had this enabled to prevent sensitive messages from appearing in full whilst showing someone something on my phone, but I guess this is an added benefit as well.

This seems to be the default for me, at least on Android.

Android also supports custom encrypted payloads so Signal doesn't have to give them to Google.
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