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As a German citizen, this’ll certainly make me thoroughly uninterested in the gender pay gap for the rest of my life.
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German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
211–220 of 799 posts
Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, I don't think the problem with war is that not enough women die in it. It makes more sense to argue against forcing anyone against their will to fight in a war.
You might not want to fight in the war but eventually the war might fight you whether you like it or not.
In the case of a typical war of conquest, fighting pretty much stops as soon as one nation surrenders. However, no nation state in the world asks, 'How can we save the most lives?', instead asking, 'Do we have enough people to send to their deaths to potentially preserve our monopoly of power?'
Of course, at the beginning of every war, some people genuinely believe that joining and defending the nation they live in is in their best interests, but these numbers quickly drop over time. As history and current events show, states start to use forced conscription in every prolonged war at some point.
Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#213I don't think there is any moat here, most European countries have these kind of "deprecated" laws, that are not enforced and just stay there because it's too much of a hassle to remove. In France, I think there are still laws forbidding women to wear jeans, and requiring permission of the husband to work. Still in the text of law, but obviously non enforceable.
US has just as many if not even more. Every state has their own collection of weird laws, like donkeys are not allowed to sleep in bathtubs or dandelions are illegal to grow over a certain height.
Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#214It’s interesting to read the discussion here through the lens of obligations vs rights. It would seem the rights are definitely winning.
Are you surprised that a forum full of people all-in hustle culture and the whole VC-startup grift is extremely selfish? This is not to say that the government should get blind faith, but some notions that the collective good has any value is alien to many people here. Libertarianism is a societal disease. "Fuck you got mine".
"Fuck you got mine" is the attitude of the boomers expecting young people to die for a country that the boomers left economically and demographically ruined. Young Germans have the worst life prospects of any generation in the past fifty years.
Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of the opposition to women in the army comes from conservatives, not from feminists. They imagine themselves injured in the trenches in need of being carried by a fellow soldier, and they conclude that women are too weak.
In measuring grips strength, which is a good proxy for general strength, 90% of females producing less force than 95% of males. In other words almost all men are stronger than almost all women.
If that factoid were at all important then the military should use grip strength to determine who to draft, not gender.
Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#216Why does it exclude women? War is not just physical strength, but also logistics, operating vehicles, operating drones, nursing, and so on. All tasks that women are well capable of.
Look at the Ukraine war. Who is being drafted against their will?
Everybody. Do you have some statistics ?
Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#217How does feminism survive if this becomes the norm? If young men feel like they're expected to give more to their society it's natural to expect renumeration financial, socially or politically. Nordic countries don't seem to have this problem, but their conscription laws are quite relaxed compared to what the future will likely hold. A declining youth population almost certainly means greater youth repression (higher…
Why would this affect feminism? If they want to fight for equal rights to conscription nobody is stopping them, and if they don't nobody is going to force them to. These gotchas don't really have any reflection on reality.
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Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it would take a change to the constitution to do that while reinstating the old draft laws only takes a regular majority in parliament. The draft is a severe limitation of personal freedom, so you can't just do that by law. The draft for men is already enabled in the constitution, the draft for woman isn't. At this moment, changing the constitution is not possible, there is no majority for this. So that prett…
Can it be challenged under the European constitution?
Theoretically yes, practically no. The ECJ can order the revision of national laws, but the country in question is responsible for implementation, and can send plaintiffs on a multi-decade merry chase. Several countries have also taken the view that they can refuse changes to their constitutions. This stands on shaky ground legally, but there is no real enforcement mechanism anyway.
Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry to burst your strawman argument, but I would support the same draft mechanism for women, as it is in Norway. But sure, continue to rail against equality and feminism for no reason.
Well, 2 wrongs make one right, don't they?! I wish we'd first fix women's rights and then extend their duties. What the OP does is just egoistically trying to make other groups also suffer.
> I wish we'd first fix women's rights and then extend their duties.
"We'll get around to it when some arbitrary measure is met, we promise"
This is the same thing you're criticising - using one injustice to justify another.
Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad
#220How does feminism survive if this becomes the norm? If young men feel like they're expected to give more to their society it's natural to expect renumeration financial, socially or politically. Nordic countries don't seem to have this problem, but their conscription laws are quite relaxed compared to what the future will likely hold. A declining youth population almost certainly means greater youth repression (higher…
Being able to serve is something the feminists have been fighting for the hardest over decades. The people who are trying to make young men only doing the killing the norm are the same people trying to end feminism. Therefore, there is some logic in your question.
When I was in Asia two years ago, as an American, every time I met a young Russian man escaping conscription, drinks were on me as appreciation to their commitment to world peace. I'm in South America now and it is being inundated with young Israeli men running like the Russians were. Nonetheless, I'm on the fence about how I feel buying them drinks.