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Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

torrentfreak.com

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Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#211
post #67
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, does this mean that people can simply argue in court now (if they were to be prosecuted for downloading media via bittorrent) that it is fair use if they used it to train a local model on their machine?

People could always simply argue in court that their torrenting was free use. If you're just some nobody representing yourself instead of an expensive lawyer acting on behalf of a large company, maybe the judge will even try to be extra nice when he explains why the argument doesn't hold water.

> maybe the judge will even try to be extra nice when he explains why the argument doesn't hold water.

The thing everybody ignores about this is context.

Suppose you upload a copy of a work to someone else over the internet for . Is it fair use? That has to depend on the reason, doesn't it? Aren't there going to be some reasons for which the answer is yes?

The "problem" here is that the reason typically belongs to the person downloading it. Suppose you're willing to upload a copy to anyone who has a bona fide legitimate fair use reason. Someone comes along, tells you that they have such a reason and you upload a copy to them. If they actually did, did you do anything wrong? What did you do that you shouldn't have done? How is this legitimate fair use copy supposed to be made if not like this?

But then suppose that they lied to you and had some different purpose that wasn't fair use. Is it you or them who has done something wrong? From your perspective the two cases are indistinguishable, so then doesn't it have to be them? On top of that, they're the one actually making the copy -- it gets written to persistent storage on their device, not yours.

It seems like the only reason people want to argue that it's the uploader and not the non-fair-use downloader who is doing something wrong is some combination of "downloading is harder to detect" and that then the downloader who actually had a fair use purpose would be able to present it and the plaintiffs don't like that because it's not compatible with their scattershot enforcement methods.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#212
post #7

> Anyone who uses BitTorrent to transfer files automatically uploads content to other people, as it is inherent to the protocol. In other words, the uploading wasn’t a choice, it was simply how the technology works. What an argument to make in court. It can be proved false in minutes by the plaintiffs.

Not exactly automatically. Seeding is opt-out, not opt-in… but it is usually a default that has to actively manually overridden. Most users never touch those settings. The average pirate downloading a torrent is seeding whether they know it or not. The protocol absolutely does not enforce seeding. A client can lie to the tracker, cap upload to 0k. BitTorrent has no mechanism to compel one to share. Leeching a file, d…

[deleted]

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#213
post #101
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds pretty shady. There's also the problem that most media generated globally is not French. Do they pretend to distribute the spoils globally?

In reality the system in these countries is pure corruption. The beneficiaries are large corporations who see it as an extra revenue stream and that's it.

Not completely. I know some french musicians who are great artists, but are not mainstream enough to sell enough records - and they do get state money to continue their art (progressive/psychedelic music, nothing tame).

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#214
Courts lose respect when their rules are not consistent and almost always favouring a legal fiction of a corporation being a person and a real person or any non-human specie on this planet as the lesser and a commodity. There must be a better way to maintain order and ensure progress.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It [calling anything you don't like "maga"] is political in-group signalling of a tribal ideology that also serves the dual purpose of destroying the meaning of language. Categorically inappropriate for HN - flag it and move on.

Similar to the way people use "woke".

Quite similar. I guess serving largely the same purpose that "alt-right" used to.

However it's important to note that "woke" at least has legitimate (if politically contentious) meaning outside of its broad misuse as a sort of slur. The other two terms don't have that AFAIK.

The case of "maga" specifically strikes me as a spiteful attempt to misappropriate the descriptor (vaguely similar to winnie the pooh) whereas the rise of the other two seems organic.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#216
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your memory may be failing you. The "maxima" you cite still exist, but they are merely statutory damages provisions. In other words, the plaintiffs can obtain such damages without proof of actual loss, i.e. strict liability. If the plaintiffs succeed in pricing actual damages beyond this level, they can obtain them.

Furthermore, in most copyright lawsuits that nerds like us actually care about (i.e. ones involving service providers and not actual artists or publishers), the number of works infringed is so high that the judge can just work backwards from the desired damage award and never actually hit the statutory damages cap. If the statutory damages limit was actually reached in basically any intermediary liability case, we'd…

Or said differently: the law is stupid

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#217
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People could always simply argue in court that their torrenting was free use. If you're just some nobody representing yourself instead of an expensive lawyer acting on behalf of a large company, maybe the judge will even try to be extra nice when he explains why the argument doesn't hold water.

> maybe the judge will even try to be extra nice when he explains why the argument doesn't hold water. The thing everybody ignores about this is context. Suppose you upload a copy of a work to someone else over the internet for . Is it fair use? That has to depend on the reason, doesn't it? Aren't there going to be some reasons for which the answer is yes? The "problem" here is that the reason typically belongs to th…

> It seems like the only reason people want to argue that it's the uploader

Well there's also the issue of enablement. If you're overly enthusiastic to turn a blind eye to illegal conduct you end up being labeled an accomplice. But of course that would seem to apply to Facebook here in equal measure.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#218
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rock bottom pricing Value is not set by what you put into it, it is set by what people are willing to pay for it. Browsing in a thrift store can be very enlightening!

> Value is not set by what you put into it, it is set by what people are willing to pay for it. Is a human life literally worthless, because they never pay to be born? The map is not the territory, the price is not the value.

History clearly establishes that the open market assigns substantial value to human life. We just happen to have outlawed trading in it. Human life has been deemed worthless by force of law.

Less facetiously, you're committing a semantic error.

Re: Uploading Pirated Books via BitTorrent Qualifies as Fair Use, Meta Argues

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rock bottom pricing Value is not set by what you put into it, it is set by what people are willing to pay for it. Browsing in a thrift store can be very enlightening!

"Markets clear" is one of those meritocracy myths that we the hoi paloi get taught explicitly all the while the elite will tell you to your face they don't believe. Google and Meta are massively profitable companies built on the idea that the concept of value is manipulable.

Where did you get the idea that those ideas are mutually exclusive?
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