Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes he was. The investigating authorities confirmed this, and that Robinson was dating him, in their indictment.
citation absolutely needed on that one.
First paragraph of page 7: https://archive.today/GJP8L
Let's call a murder a murder
211–220 of 236 posts
Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish this video would put an end to the claims that she was blocking traffic. This video makes it clear that the very person who shot her was the one who blocked traffic. She was trying to get around that vehicle. Unfortunately I know it won't.
https://x.com/i/status/2010037103665787019
What specific vehicle(s) in that video are being blocked? The posted commentary sounds like it's an open and shut case, but this is what I saw from it:
Before we first see the Pilot, a black Jeep starts to head up the road, then decided to reverse the other way instead. Presumably this is due to the Pilot, but it is unclear of whether they approached and asked to go past but were denied, or whether they simply didn't want to get involved.
The first time we see the Pilot it is blocking both travel lanes, but nobody is trying to go past. Next we see another vehicle further up the road (red minivan) stopped across both travel lanes as well (it could have also informed the Jeep's desire to go the other way).
Four cars then head down the street towards the Pilot, with one pulling over to the right decently before her. The next time the camera pans back to the Pilot, it is only blocking one lane and those 3 cars have seemingly gone past.
More cars head down the street, with some combination of going by her and stopping near her. But all the cars that are stopped around her appear to have stopped of their own volition rather than because they were blocked.
My conclusion from this video is that she was not blocking traffic, but she was being a nuisance with her horn. But in this situation, that horn usage would be Constitutionally-protected speech, and any speech-orthogonal daytime noise disturbance ordinance would not be under federal jurisdiction.
Being an asshole isn't a crime worthy of summary execution, is it?
Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#213Just found: "The agent who shot a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday was pulled about 100 yards by a car last year while firing a stun gun at the driver." So, this is a trend.
It doesn't make any sense to me why an agent would deliberately put themselves at the front of a car if they'd previously been in such an incident (presumably they weren't hurt by the previous incident). Anyone with a functioning brain would surely have much better awareness of their positioning and should be following the guidance to approach from the side. Also, I thought there was very clear guidance about not dis…
> why an agent would deliberately put themselves at the front of a car if they'd previously been in such an incident
One reason would be that after the first time he fucked around and found out with a vehicle, he resolved to shoot the driver the next time. This would explain why he tried to box in the metal car with his squishy body while keeping an exit strategy - being positioned at the right place to claim he was worried about being hit without actually getting hit. It would also mean this incident was premeditated murder.
Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
I never said the U-turn was the only acceptable reason that they could be there, I only mentioned it because it was the most innocent possible reason for Renee to be there that I can think of. In these cases, isn’t it usual for evidence to be kept out of the public eye until after all relevant court trials are done? Also, just to be very clear, I am not saying ICE shot Renee because she was being a nuisance. I am say…
Sorry, I shouldn't have referenced the u-turn as the changed goalpost when my real qualm was the other end of characterizing " being there for a while " as a problem. > In these cases, isn’t it usual for evidence to be kept out of the public eye until after all relevant court trials are done? Do you actually think that is what is being done here in any sense, what with the release of the body cam footage and the imme…
I have nothing specific to add, but just wanted to thank both of you for trying hard to have a productive conversation about a contentious topic despite disagreeing. It's nice to see people leading by providing positive examples rather than screaming at each other.
Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#215Site full of cowards. The stance this site has taken while things like this happen outside the very doors is shameful.
> The stance this site has taken
What are you even referring to?
Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#216The sharpest (and scariest) analysis I've encountered is this: the administration governs as though no government will ever follow. The blanket pardons for January 6th insurrectionists, the revocation of Secret Service protection for political enemies—these are not the actions of someone who expects to face accountability from a future administration. And that's precisely the point. Trump is not governing recklessly;…
Even if the democrats win, they will face no consequences.
Chuck Schumer can’t even say ICE funding should go down
Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would agree with this more if Renee was just a random person that ICE decided to give a hard time. But in this case, it was her decision to become involved and attempt to obstruct the officers from doing the job they explicitly have the authority to do [1]. Also in this case Renee is the one who made the first life threatening action. The fight-or-flight situation is her own doing. People should protest but there a…
Can you elaborate on specifically what she did to " attempt to obstruct the officers ", ideally with a source that isn't just hearsay or seemingly outright fabrication (eg the administration) ? Everything I've seen starts off with a description of her "blocking" one lane of a two lane street, which is a perfectly normal activity in city traffic for a multitude of purposes. And those purposes would certainly include f…
> Can you elaborate on specifically what she did to "attempt to obstruct the officers"... ? Everything I've seen starts off with a description of her "blocking" one lane of a two lane street, which is a perfectly normal activity in city traffic for a multitude of purposes. And those purposes would certainly include filming or observing the activities of government agents.
> I've avoided watching the videos
Watching any of the videos makes it immediately and abundantly clear that she is deliberately obstructing the officers, by positioning her car more or less perpendicular to the road (and selectively waving past non-ICE traffic). She's driving an SUV, which naturally is going to obstruct more than one lane in this position. Filming and observing activities did not require having a car on the road at all.
> Did she do something violent before the masked, armed, and aggressive gang (with no lawful jurisdiction over US citizens) surrounded her and attacked her car?
First, if you "have avoided watching the videos", then how can you suppose to know such things about what happened? (In point of fact, the videos make it abundantly clear that the officers took no "life threatening action" before she accelerated the vehicle forward.)
Second, you are simply incorrect in supposing that ICE agents "have no lawful jurisdiction over US citizens". It has repeatedly been established that, as federal LEO, they may generally enforce federal law against US citizens. For example, from the SF Chronicle (https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/ice-arrests-cit...) (which can't reasonably be dismissed as any sort of right-wing propaganda):
> Protesters can be arrested for violence against government officers, destruction of property or acts of obstruction, such as blocking the path of an officer’s vehicle.
> ... But [according to a law professor] “if a citizen interferes with ICE work, then the citizen needs to follow orders to get out of the way” to avoid being charged with obstructing law enforcement.
It's easy to find many other sources that confirm that LEO can tell you to get out of the car at a lawful traffic stop, even if you are not under arrest, and you are legally required to comply. And federal ICE agents are clearly LEO.
Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, had a sentence mangled due to some editing, should have read “due to Renee’s positioning of the car, and her wife’s interaction with the officers”. As for my biases: I don’t care for Trump, I like some things he does, I hate others, but I do think illegal immigrants are a problem.
Did her wife leave the car at any time? Or are you talking about verbal interaction, which is most likely Constitutionally-protected criticism of government agents? (such verbal interaction would also indicate a clear reason for the positioning of the car) Or is there something specific in the verbal interaction that establishes a mens rea to physically impede? If so, please quote it. (not that her wife's words estab…
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Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#219They have released a version of the masked agent's bodycam. Seems to be another Rorschach test: they released it because they think it's exculpatory, but to my eyes it's even worse. He's engaged in a petty argument with the driver, tries to block her car with his body as she drives away, shoots her, then says "fuckin' bitch!" after he's killed her. https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3mbz3v...
Her last words to him are "I'm not mad at you"
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Re: Let's call a murder a murder
#220They have released a version of the masked agent's bodycam. Seems to be another Rorschach test: they released it because they think it's exculpatory, but to my eyes it's even worse. He's engaged in a petty argument with the driver, tries to block her car with his body as she drives away, shoots her, then says "fuckin' bitch!" after he's killed her. https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3mbz3v...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ice-agent-shooting-video-minne...
> He's engaged in a petty argument with the driver
No; the argument occurs outside the vehicle, and is with the driver's partner. And it is not so much of an "argument" as him being repeatedly provoked with statements such as "You want to come at us? I say go get yourself some lunch, big boy. Go ahead."
> tries to block her car with his body
No, he does not. He happened to move around the front of the car, which is consistent with circling the car to get video footage of it from all angles which would be part of expected evidence-gathering protocol. The car can be seen (including in other video) to move back and realign as he is walking in front.
> then says "fuckin' bitch!" after he's killed her.
Even left-wing sources like the CBC concede that "It is unclear who said those words."