Why was 15 chosen? I assume there's evidence that older children and adults are able to use social media responsibly and therefore not harmed?
Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
211–220 of 453 posts
Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure how I feel about making it illegal, but it does benefit from some sort of collective action. If none of your child's friends and classmates have cell phones yet, I'd strongly encourage establishing a smartphone pact with the other parents. Our community used http://waituntil8th.org pledges but even a shared spreadsheet would work.
All that local level stuff doesn’t work. As soon as a couple of kids have a smartphone, the online world becomes vastly more interesting than the day to day.
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Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#213As a parent who gave my oldest child a (very used) smartphone just before she turned 14, I would be in favor of making smartphones illegal under age 15 (or some other number, higher or lower I don't care). I'm pretty sure they're worse than cigarettes for the future of humanity.
If you're a parent then act like one. You're perfectly able to enact that ban yourself - why do you need the governments help?
Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#214I'm curious as to how social media gets defined for these bans. I presume text messaging doesn't count whereas Discord/WhatsApp do? What about Minecraft and other games? What about school platforms which they can post comments/messages on? Is watching YouTube included? When I've filled in surveys about our children's social media use, they have included YouTube, which makes it look like every child is on social media…
It does not really require a lot of nuance. Any platforms serving short-form content using algorithmic recommendations, giving any random account infinite reach, a la Instagram/Tiktok/Youtube/Shorts/Reels/Redbook/etc are part of the problem.
WhatsApp groups are a source of slightly different issues - fake news, radicalization, social bubbles - but not a source of addiction to the same level, especially among the young.
Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#215As a parent who gave my oldest child a (very used) smartphone just before she turned 14, I would be in favor of making smartphones illegal under age 15 (or some other number, higher or lower I don't care). I'm pretty sure they're worse than cigarettes for the future of humanity.
I would be pretty happy about social media being banned for everyone if not the immense possibilty for the government to abuse this law to disrupt undesired communication altogether.
Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This has to be done carefully because prohibition breeds desire and adults will absolutely try to force the attitude of 35 year olds onto 15 year olds forgetting a lot of life lessons have to be learned through experience and not just told. The interesting tidbit in the case of social media and smart phones is that they are at least partially pushed by the parents (I've seen plenty of examples of parents demand tha…
Lots of bending over backwards and appeals to authority to rationalize an emotional feeling of "This time is different." Again, every generation thinks that. This time might be different. But it's probably not.
> Again, every generation thinks that.
> This time might be different. But it's probably not.
And this is an appeal to tradition.
This article[1] from 2024 discusses this the studies on this topic. It seems to me the results are mixed, but conclusions range between social media being neutral to harmful. There is a lot in that article, so it's worth a read.
[1] https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/728739
Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is rather the algorithmic feed optimized for grabbing our attention. It's definitely addictive and should be regulated like other drugs. Give people technology, but let's have an honest conversation about it finally. As a adult it's already hard to muster enough self control to not keep scrolling.
Okay, so explain this to your child, just like you tell them they shouldn't do drugs. Are there not people who are sober by choice? The only thing preventing you from going and smoking crack right now is most certainly not because it's illegal, but because you make a choice not to do so, knowing the negative effects it has on you. I don't scroll social media. When I was 14-17, sure. But then I lost interest, much lik…
The part you’re missing is that the decision to be online isn’t like choosing to do drugs. It’s closer to deciding to go to parties and socialise at all.
Social media for teens is ubiquitous and where your peers connect. It’s being included in your social group, not opt-in thrill seeking.
Most teens will have multiple accounts for various networks - private accounts for their friends, and then again for closer friends. Or they use apps like Discord that parents have no visibility into at all. There is a lot that most parents never see.
For better or worse.
Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was programming age 5 in BASIC. Raspberry Pis are the modern equivalent and I think every child should have one. > they learn how to function without technological dependencies. So like the Amish? Or are they still too technologically dependent and children need to be banned from pulleys, fulcrums, wheels, etc.?
I don't know much about the Amish, so I can't comment. Teaching kids how to code isn't all that meaningful on its own. knowing what to do once you learn how to code is. If your plan is to teach your kid how to code, teach them to solve problems without code at that age. Unless you're serious about thinking learning at age 5 vs age 13 would make a big difference. I think every kid 13 and above should have an rpi too.
I think you're missing the point. 5 year old me was writing their own computer games and at no point did I need or ask my parents how to do it (though they did buy the computer; thanks mum and dad!), they didn't know.
There were a plethora of books in the library on how to program, and here you are suggesting I, and everyone like me, be banned from doing so. You'd probably also ban me from the library by assuming I couldn't read aged 5. I certainly could, especially computer manuals. The computer was an amazing thing which did exactly what I told it, and I learned quickly how precise I needed to tell it, and when I made a mistake, it repeated my mistakes over and over without noticing. I learned more about digital ethics age 5 trying to write games than the typical CEO learns going on a "Do Not Create The Torment Nexus" course.
You'd insist I not be allowed to even use software, let alone write my own. You'd be actively cutting off my future professional life, and depriving entire nations of bedroom programmers cum professional software engineers, with your ill-thought-out ban.
If your children show an aptitude or a fascination for a topic, I hope you feed that and praise them for it.
Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#219As a parent who gave my oldest child a (very used) smartphone just before she turned 14, I would be in favor of making smartphones illegal under age 15 (or some other number, higher or lower I don't care). I'm pretty sure they're worse than cigarettes for the future of humanity.
I would be pretty happy about social media being banned for everyone if not the immense possibilty for the government to abuse this law to disrupt undesired communication altogether.
This website is social media.
Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would it have made a big difference if you learned to code at 13? Is there a pressing need as to why kids need to code at a young age? Maybe there could be exceptions for children that develop sooner? If your other developmental metrics were met early on, I don't see why an earlier age would be a problem.
I don't know, maybe? Maybe it's not up to the state to decide whether my kids developmental metrics allows them screen time before age 13? What kind of nanny state is that?
I don't think that's a nanny state. you can't give your kid alcohol for example at that age, let them drive, get married (don't get me started on some countries!), operate a chainsaw or other dangerous machinery.
This is a danger to their mental development. Look at teacher forums all over. r/Teachers on reddit should be illuminating. Tech and parents sticking devices to their kids instead of raising them properly has resulted in utter disaster. If there was no harm imposed on children, I would agree that it is a nanny-state thing.