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My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

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Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#211

Post by FearNotDaniel »

I've read this and many of the comments and still don't quite understand what is being blocked. Nobody has quite stated it explicitly, and what seems to be being implied seems too absurd to be true, but I'm assuming it must be true hence all the outrage against La Liga, their media partners and the government.

So just to really spell it out for an idiot like me: this means that _all_ internet users in Spain are blocked from accessing _any_ of the IP ranges that La Liga doesn't like, while a football match is in play, regardless of whether the services they are trying to access have anything to do with pirating football matches? Is that the actual situation?

Edit: thanks @npteljes for providing context from a previous HN post...

> "LaLiga's Anti-Piracy Crackdown Triggers Widespread Internet Disruptions in Spain"

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45323856

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#212

Post by john01dav »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #191
distances wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Bars, pubs and other public establishments have to pay around 200€/month in order to show football on their TVs while the household package goes between 10 and 30€/month. This is common in Europe in general, also for copyrighted music. If your establishment wants to play recorded music, even just playing the radio or Spotify on the background, a copyright royalty fee has to be paid. Applies to all venues and even…

It's not the same everywhere in the EU, but here in Poland as an establishment owner you have to pay this fee to an agency that purports to represent the musicians. As you describe eg. Spotify in background. This agency pays out proportionately to registered licensed musicians, but the proportions are calculated in some ridiculous way that doesn't really factor in who's music is played. It means that the only folks w…

> registered licensed musicians

What does this mean? Is a license required to make music in Poland? I can't find anything about this on the Internet.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#213

Post by john01dav »

cestith wrote: post #165
kulahan wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clearly not illegal.

Often it’s not. Back when Sony put a Windows rootkit on autorun on music CDs just in case someone wanted to rip a FLAC, that was a felony violation of the CFAA in the US. The big difference is consent. If I use your app to watch a game and the conditions of using your app include giving you microphone access, that’s legal. If you breach my phone to turn on the mic and listen to me, that’s illegal.

Calling something like that "consent" when it's the only (legal) way to obtain specific services is extremely dubious. A much more rigorous definition of "consent" is generally enforced in cases where the ruling class doesn't gain by having such consent.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#214

Post by juahan »

john01dav wrote: post #212
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same everywhere in the EU, but here in Poland as an establishment owner you have to pay this fee to an agency that purports to represent the musicians. As you describe eg. Spotify in background. This agency pays out proportionately to registered licensed musicians, but the proportions are calculated in some ridiculous way that doesn't really factor in who's music is played. It means that the only folks w…

> registered licensed musicians What does this mean? Is a license required to make music in Poland? I can't find anything about this on the Internet.

I guess artist registers if they want the entity to collect money for their plays.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#215

Post by jonathantf2 »

fragmede wrote: post #175
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In UK/Ireland you can easily identify if the venue in question is paying for the commercial package as it will intermittently display a pint glass symbol in a bottom corner of the screen. Indeed, Sky investigators, who do spot checks, use it to quickly ensure that the pub has a valid pub contract and not a residential contract. That seems as if it would be so easy to fake...

Does it cost more less time/effort for the bar to fake it though? The price of 200€/month above seems low enough to just pay it.

A pub near us got quoted near £1500 a month just for one service, you have to have 3 separate ones to watch all the games. Risking a fine might be cheaper than paying that for some

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#216

Post by fluoridation »

gloosx wrote: post #200
fluoridation wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>luxury real estate, yachts, exclusive services, tax havens All of that eventually has to flow back into, as you'd put it, non-elite segments of the economy. What, do you think shipyard workers eat yatchs? There's no subnetwork in the economy where money flows in and never comes back out. That just doesn't exist.

"money always comes back" view is too simplistic. Value can absolutely be destroyed or locked away: Build a $2M missile -> launch -> it explodes. The workers get wages, sure, but the capital value is literally blown up. No ongoing benefit to the wider economy. Stadiums for Olympics/World Cups -> billions spent -> used for 2 weeks -> abandoned. Money circulates in construction wages, but the asset sits idle, draining…

>Build a $2M missile -> launch -> it explodes. The workers get wages, sure, but the capital value is literally blown up. No ongoing benefit to the wider economy.

>Stadiums for Olympics/World Cups -> billions spent -> used for 2 weeks -> abandoned. Money circulates in construction wages, but the asset sits idle, draining maintenance costs.

You have no possible way to quantify the wastefulness of an action. Blowing up a rocket can help prevent more waste. You can feed someone a bowl of soup that makes them sick. With what omniscience do you get to deem a club's expenses wasteful?

>Buy a $450M painting -> store it in a tax-free warehouse -> never seen, never sold for decades. That capital is locked — the flow stops until resale.

No kidding? The thing you bought stays with you until you sell it? Sorry, how is this different from literally anything else?

>But the end product can be waste, destruction, or dead capital. That is the difference between circulation and productive reinvestment.

Let's say I'm the richest man in the world, and I use half of my wealth to pay people to dig the biggest, deepest hole possible, and then the other half to fill it back up. I'm sure both you and I will agree that that's a purely wasteful endeavor that would accomplish nothing. Ignoring ecological destruction, who was harmed? What was lost, and who lost it?

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#217

Post by gloosx »

fluoridation wrote: post #216
gloosx wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"money always comes back" view is too simplistic. Value can absolutely be destroyed or locked away: Build a $2M missile -> launch -> it explodes. The workers get wages, sure, but the capital value is literally blown up. No ongoing benefit to the wider economy. Stadiums for Olympics/World Cups -> billions spent -> used for 2 weeks -> abandoned. Money circulates in construction wages, but the asset sits idle, draining…

>Build a $2M missile -> launch -> it explodes. The workers get wages, sure, but the capital value is literally blown up. No ongoing benefit to the wider economy. >Stadiums for Olympics/World Cups -> billions spent -> used for 2 weeks -> abandoned. Money circulates in construction wages, but the asset sits idle, draining maintenance costs. You have no possible way to quantify the wastefulness of an action. Blowing up…

>What was lost, and who lost it?

What's lost is opportunity. All that wealth could have gone into projects that produce lasting value: infrastructure, innovation, healthcare. Instead, it was sunk into an activity with no return. Misallocation of capital is a loss measured in foregone progress, society ends up poorer than it could have been, because while we could have had a new hospital or brigde, workers were busy digging some literal shithole. Does it answer your question?

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#218

Post by lifestyleguru »

sofixa wrote: post #60
lifestyleguru wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European football is more about gambling, betting, and drug trafficking than about sport.

Utter nonsense. It's about sport and community. Yeah, the Bulgarian football scene is dominated by the mafia and gambling, but that's the exception, not the norm.

Polish football is mafia an gambling, one of the largest Greek companies is... football prognostic agency. Spanish players are millionaires in early 20s while others get 10% unemployment and if lucky salary 1200 euro. European football is cesspit.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#219

Post by fluoridation »

gloosx wrote: post #217
fluoridation wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Build a $2M missile -> launch -> it explodes. The workers get wages, sure, but the capital value is literally blown up. No ongoing benefit to the wider economy. >Stadiums for Olympics/World Cups -> billions spent -> used for 2 weeks -> abandoned. Money circulates in construction wages, but the asset sits idle, draining maintenance costs. You have no possible way to quantify the wastefulness of an action. Blowing up…

>What was lost, and who lost it? What's lost is opportunity . All that wealth could have gone into projects that produce lasting value: infrastructure, innovation, healthcare. Instead, it was sunk into an activity with no return. Misallocation of capital is a loss measured in foregone progress, society ends up poorer than it could have been, because while we could have had a new hospital or brigde, workers were busy…

>What's lost is opportunity.

Surely it's my problem and my problem alone if I want to lose the opportunity to spend my money in something fruitful to instead spend it in something pointless and worthless.

>while we could have had a new hospital or brigde

Well, no. It was my money I spent. Regardless of what I was going to do with it, building hospitals and bridges was never in the cards.

Let's say that I made my fortune... whatever, selling tickets to football games. Well, the opportunity to do those things was lost little by little every time someone bought a ticket. So what do you want? Do you want a centrally managed economy where individuals cannot make purchasing decisions? You do your government-assigned job, you get in line for your government-approved meal, and for entertainment in the afternoon you can attend a play about how great the ruling party is and how everyone must do their part for the good of the nation. There, that's what an economy with no misallocated resources (by the parameters you've set) looks like. No one can incorrectly spend their money because there's no money to spend. The government has complete control.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#220

Post by bastard_op »

It ought to be a useful indicator to Spain/Italy and their population that the only thing they're good for is football and causing misery for everyone else. Maybe some self-reflection is due.

They shut down the internet because they're poisoned peoples minds to crave watching football, and then overcharge the hell out of them to the point they seek any and all alternatives. You will watch our goddamn football and pay us for the privilege whether you like sports or not, or well shut down the internet!

Imagine if the MPAA/RIAA had this sort of authority in 2003 with Kazaa.

It's almost like Disney ran government, which even the US isn't far from.

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