211–220 of 459 posts
I think this attitude to the Linux ABI is maybe out of date - with a 20 year old Linux binary, that's only 2005, so it will almost certainly be using glibc (no archaic libc5). Glibc has great backwards compatibility and the binary will work on any glibc distribution today as long as you have all the .so's, same as needing the .dll's on Windows.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is solved by containerization (cgroups and namespaces), which is initially popularized by docker, which appeared about 12 years ago. And newer things like flatpak and snap are just bells and whistles over this.
I have flatpaks from several years ago that no longer work (Krita) due to some GL issues.
> While the Linux syscalls themselves are very stable and reliable, the c library on top of them is not. Practically all of userland is based on libc, and therefore by proxy Linux itself has a binary compatibility problem. People who primarily use Linux often forget that Windows has the exact same problem. In the case of Windows libc is distributed as part of the Visual C++ runtime. Each version of Visual Studio has…
Is libc updates really the primary problem with the ABI breaks on Linux? Glibc isn't perfect but it has versioned symbols going back a long time now. My guess would be the problem is actually abandoned versions of other libraries (e.g. SDL1, old versions of gtk2?) and maybe a handful of other things.
Other libraries are the problem, usually. People are generally really good about changing the .so version of a library when the ABI changes in a backwards-incompatible way. Usually distributions ship both versions until everything they ship either has upgraded or been removed. Solutions like appimage can allow you to ship these libraries in your app.
> While the Linux syscalls themselves are very stable and reliable, the c library on top of them is not. Practically all of userland is based on libc, and therefore by proxy Linux itself has a binary compatibility problem. People who primarily use Linux often forget that Windows has the exact same problem. In the case of Windows libc is distributed as part of the Visual C++ runtime. Each version of Visual Studio has…
In Winapi land, the equivalent of "the c library" is NTDLL,its wrappers and other supporting libs (advapi32,userenv,etc... and Win32 specific libs which I consider equivalent to X11 libs). MSVCR in my opinion is there to provide the stdlib for C/C++ programs. In Linux land, the library that provides the C stdlib also wraps syscalls, in Windows, the C stdlib is a wrapper/interface for Windows api's. My opinion is that…
I still believe we would be in a better place had BSD was ready for adoption before Linux. Linux is a kernel and a wide family of operating systems assembled from the kernel and different bits and pieces while BSD tried to be a very coherent operating system from the start.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In 2005 the hot new Windows technology was .NET Framework 1.1 or 2.0. You can't just dump Framework 1.1's libraries next to the binary and expect it to work either, it needs to be installed properly.
The most recent .NET Framework still keeps 1.1 assemblies for compatibility. And yep, .NET sucked and eventually got semi-abandoned.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Winapi land, the equivalent of "the c library" is NTDLL,its wrappers and other supporting libs (advapi32,userenv,etc... and Win32 specific libs which I consider equivalent to X11 libs). MSVCR in my opinion is there to provide the stdlib for C/C++ programs. In Linux land, the library that provides the C stdlib also wraps syscalls, in Windows, the C stdlib is a wrapper/interface for Windows api's. My opinion is that…
Very well explained, thank you. > Let Linux be Linux and Windows be Windows. They're both great if you appreciate them for what they are and use the accordingly. What if you technically prefer the Windows way, but are worried about Microsoft's behavior related to commercial strategy, lock-down, privacy...? The author envisions a system that's technically stable as Windows, yet free as Linux.
Is there a Wine like library that helps running macOS apps on Linux?
They seem to not be interested in locking the hardware and they don't make much money from selling Windows and it shows. There aren't many strong improvements in Windows and it feels like Windows is a platform they use to sell other stuff they make money with - they are with Windows in a similar position Google is with Android.