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Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

magiclasso.co

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Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#211

Post by Devasta »

As an example of how perfidious some of the discussions on web standards are, on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_browser_engines

In teeny tiny font near the bottom:

"Given the market-share dominance of Blink-based browsers,[4] if Google chooses to not support a standard, like JPEG XL,[30][31] it will not become relevant on the Web.[30][31] Such standards are not listed in these tables."

So if Chrome implements something that Safari doesn't, then its a deficiency in Safari. If Safari supports something Chrome doesn't, its not relevant so will not appear in any comparison tables.

Chrome is 100% the new IE, as it is the being treated as the sole arbiter of what is a web standard or not.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#212

Post by eMPee584 »

lmm wrote: post #200
bloppe wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one left happily using Firefox? You know, the only "major" browser that doesn't seem to have these conflicts of interest?

The Firefox that gets the vast majority of its revenue from Google, that Firefox? I think the only full-featured browser with a prosocial funding model is Konqueror, where what little money there is mostly comes from EU grants. Not coincidental that its code quality was so much better that everyone else based on its rendering engine.

and until recently, the only browser that allows to split the view into independent sub-windows..

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#213

Post by EasyMark »

fenomas wrote: post #199
pjmlp wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely is, I was also there, just like everyone was doing IE only sites, not only plenty of people do the same with ChromeOS vision of the Web, they ship Chrome alongside Electron crap. Safari is the last man standing before a ChromeOS world.

Considering Safari is mainly used on a platform where it's mandatory, I'm not sure "standing" is the term. Last man being propped up Weekend-at-Bernie's style?

It’s not really mandatory, you can use other browsers on both iOS and macOS

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#214

Post by EasyMark »

jgtrosh wrote: post #177
doctorpangloss wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The audience for computers in 2024 has grown to maybe 1,000x what it was in 2008. Everyone has to rediscover the meaning of being able to choose.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273018/number-of-interne... maybe 3.7x

Yeah no way it’s 1000x lol

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#215

Post by firen777 »

bloppe wrote: post #163
onion2k wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is the last man standing before a ChromeOS world. Except it isn't. Maybe I'm being slightly obtuse here, but the world is not "Chrome Vs Safari". It's "Chrome Vs Safari Vs native apps". If Safari dies we'll be in a world of "Chrome Vs native apps", and that is what Apple wants. Browsers represent a way to deliver software to users that's outside of Apple's revenue mechanisms. Apple have every incentive to keep…

Am I the only one left happily using Firefox? You know, the only "major" browser that doesn't seem to have these conflicts of interest?

Being the only Android browser (that I know of) that support extensions, namely UBlock Origin, means that Firefox is the only logical choice for me.

Chrome's Manifest v3 forcing UBO into becoming UBO Lite only strengthen my original decision.

Hopefully this move by google would push more people toward Firefox. Although considering the amount of people who happily surf the web with zero adblockers (including every single of my IT colleagues), I'm not holding my breathe.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#216

Post by fenomas »

EasyMark wrote: post #213
fenomas wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering Safari is mainly used on a platform where it's mandatory, I'm not sure "standing" is the term. Last man being propped up Weekend-at-Bernie's style?

It’s not really mandatory, you can use other browsers on both iOS and macOS

Safari is mandatory to have on iOS - it's preinstalled and can't be removed. It's also propped up in the sense of being built on apis and OS features that other browsers aren't allowed to use.

I mean, imagine if DOJ forced Apple to divest Safari and treat it the same as other browsers. What would happen? Parsimonious answer: the same thing that happened everywhere else.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#217

Post by nerdix »

pirates wrote: post #67
nerdix wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google typically goes out of its way to make its products work on iOS while the same can't be said in reverse.

Intentionally restricting apps from using core features of the OS with a paywall is making its products work?

I'm not sure which product(s) you're referring to.

Apple has like 6 apps in the Play Store and one of them is for helping Android users migrate to iOS. On the other hand, Google has dozens of apps in the App Store.

And Flutter Web not working on iOS doesn't even help Google. If anything it just hurts Flutter's adoption on the web which is already low. So I don't think there is some grand conspiracy within Google to take out Safari by withholding Flutter support.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#218

Post by lenerdenator »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #96

No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…

Regardless of all of that, monocultures are bad.

Monocultures that allow for one company to make it hard to avoid advertising and data tracking on the web are even worse.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#219

Post by aalimov_ »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #201
Aloisius wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari hasn't actually been particular far behind implementing industry standards. As far as I can tell, it's more that people seem to believe that Google dictates industry standards and base everything on when Chrome supports it as opposed to when it actually gets standardized. SSE's W3C draft standard in 2012. Supported in Safari in 2010. web sockets This one is true. IETF standard 2011. Supported fully in Safari 2…

This is very misleading, compare implementation timelines between browsers and you'll see that Safari has implemented many of these things year(s) after chromium, firefox and even opera. This of course was because they have tried as much as possible to push people to closed source/walled garden apps.

I still don’t understand what you’re trying to say about Safari. After reading the response (outlining draft vs support dates) to your initial comment it seems like the reality is that your primary complaints dont make much sense. Maybe there are some other features that they were late to start supporting. Seems more like other browsers jumped on new features before they were standardized, and maybe that is at the heart of your original complaint? Safari taking “too long” to support things that dont have a standard?

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#220

Post by kccqzy »

alganet wrote: post #110
bawolff wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sheesh, the existence of libraries does not mean standards have failed.

Sometimes it does. Would normalize.css exist if the standards were more specific around default styles? Would jQuery/sizzle exist if CSS selectors were available as a DOM API in the first place? Would vdom exist if DOM was faster?

VDOM would still exist if the DOM was faster. It's a different abstraction that reconciles the differences between the simple data->elements flow and the inherently stateful DOM. If you don't understand why VDOM exists, here's a nice experiment: in your next web app stop using VDOM and always set innerHTML. You'll find that (1) it's actually fast enough so you can conclude that VDOM doesn't exist just to patch over DOM slowness; (2) you are missing some features you get in VDOM.

The answer is that the DOM inherently has state. It could be a textbox's text input and its cursor state, or the focus state, or whatever. But developers don't want to think about this DOM-managed state to simplify their mental model.

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