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Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

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Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#211

Post by jamesaguilar »

wvenable wrote: post #208
jamesaguilar wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it wrong that Microsoft doesn't provide free versions . . . More like, "Would it be wrong if Windows 8 would not install on a computer I bought this year?" > So what really matters is a bunch of subjective crap? Yes. I'm human. "Subjective crap" and the expectations created by it matter to me, as they do to most of us.

> Would it be wrong if Windows 8 would not run on a computer I bought this year. So now you think Microsoft is morally obligated to design their software so that it runs on older hardware? Your expectations are clearly pretty extreme. The interesting point here is that Google's software does work on the hardware we're talking about. So is Google or Microsoft obligated to give you software for free? Obviously they are…

> Your expectations are clearly pretty extreme.

They are the expectations of typical users of Windows and Android software. I am not sure what you mean by extreme but whatever it is, it's not what I typically think of when I hear the word.

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#212

Post by wvenable »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #209
wvenable wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, of course, you're wrong since there is no double-standard. Microsoft is no more responsible than Google is with regards to their software installed on hardware you buy from a manufacturer.

I would be very surprised if the average Joe feels this way. To double check my theories, I just asked three engineers where I work and they all seem to believe that Microsoft has an obligation to support new, high-end laptops in a near-term OS bump.

Microsoft has no such obligation; but you might certainly want that. But we all want stuff. Do a bunch of engineers want Microsoft to release an OS that supports their new laptops -- of course. So what.

The thing is, this happens all the time. My Dell laptop came with Vista and it doesn't "support" Windows 7. You can't get 7 drivers directly from them. It runs 7 just fine (in fact better) but you're on your own to get it working.

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#213

Post by metrop0219 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #142
gte910h wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm all over you getting an iPad (I'm primarily an iOS dev), the Nexus line of phones, other than the G1, have shown markedly more updatability than the run of the mill random crapware phones you get for free by doing X or Y. Perhaps you'll get a few years of updates out of it?

The OP wants a 10" tablet, which Google's not making. He's saying that if he buys a Samsung produced Jelly Bean 10" tablet, it won't be future proof.

Surface!

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#214

Post by wvenable »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #206
wvenable wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> be wrong to consider Microsoft responsible for Windows failing to update on a recently acquired laptop. Is it wrong that Microsoft doesn't provide free versions of Windows 8 to everyone who bought a Windows 7 PC? Because that's what you're comparing it to. Obviously nobody on the street would think that's reasonable. > If Windows stopped updating on your machine, would you consider Microsoft responsible for that? M…

> Is it wrong that Microsoft doesn't provide free versions . . . More like, "Would it be wrong if Windows 8 would not install on a computer I bought this year?" > So what really matters is a bunch of subjective crap? Yes. I'm human. "Subjective crap" and the expectations created by it matter to me, as they do to most of us.

> Would it be wrong if Windows 8 would not install on a computer I bought this year?

Why would it be? I'd like to know the thinking behind this. Are all software makers similarly constrained? Is Valve obligated to make games that run on computers I bought this year? In fact, are they obligated to make games that run on my crappy netbook too?

Is Microsoft obligated to give you Windows 8 for free? Install it for you? Provide all the drivers? Exactly how much free shit do you want?

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#215

Post by jamesaguilar »

wvenable wrote: post #212
jamesaguilar wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be very surprised if the average Joe feels this way. To double check my theories, I just asked three engineers where I work and they all seem to believe that Microsoft has an obligation to support new, high-end laptops in a near-term OS bump.

Microsoft has no such obligation; but you might certainly want that. But we all want stuff. Do a bunch of engineers want Microsoft to release an OS that supports their new laptops -- of course. So what. The thing is, this happens all the time. My Dell laptop came with Vista and it doesn't "support" Windows 7. You can't get 7 drivers directly from them. It runs 7 just fine (in fact better) but you're on your own to ge…

> Microsoft has no such obligation

You and I are using different meanings of this word. Presumably you are referring to a legal obligation, or a moral one. I don't recognize the existence of morality and I suspect that, unless they have a "Windows 8 Ready" tag on the machine, no legal obligation would exist either.

The "obligation" I am speaking of is an expectation formed in the minds of average consumers to the point where they consider it a fault on the part of the software manufacturer when the expectation is not met.

> Dell ...

How old was the machine? There's a big difference in most consumers' expectations between failing to support N-year old devices and devices that are currently selling.

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#216

Post by MatthewPhillips »

noveltyaccount wrote: post #181
tomkarlo wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Microsoft, Surface pricing is "expected to be competitive with a comparable ARM tablet or Intel Ultrabook-class PC" (paraphrasing from the original presentation.) It's pretty clear that's closer to the $800 mark than the $200. If they want to compete with the iPad, they'll need to get down into the $500-$700 range, but I doubt they'd be giving that kind of price guidance if anything under $400 was remote…

To clarify that, the RT version will compete with ARM tablet prices; expect ~US$500. The Pro version will compete with Intel-based ultrabooks; expect ~$1200.

$500 is the price of 16GB tablets, Surface's minimum is 32GB.

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#217

Post by wvenable »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #215
wvenable wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has no such obligation; but you might certainly want that. But we all want stuff. Do a bunch of engineers want Microsoft to release an OS that supports their new laptops -- of course. So what. The thing is, this happens all the time. My Dell laptop came with Vista and it doesn't "support" Windows 7. You can't get 7 drivers directly from them. It runs 7 just fine (in fact better) but you're on your own to ge…

> Microsoft has no such obligation You and I are using different meanings of this word. Presumably you are referring to a legal obligation, or a moral one. I don't recognize the existence of morality and I suspect that, unless they have a "Windows 8 Ready" tag on the machine, no legal obligation would exist either. The "obligation" I am speaking of is an expectation formed in the minds of average consumers to the poi…

> The "obligation" I am speaking of is an expectation...

Obligation is a legal or moral term -- you can't use that term otherwise. An expectation is not an obligation. If you expect free cookies from me because I've been giving you free cookies every day for the past week, that's fine. But I'm not obligated to give you free cookies today. If Bob gives you free cookies and I'm now sitting in Bob's desk, you might expect free cookies but I'm not obligated to give them to you.

Microsoft provides updates out of the goodness of their heart. You might expect them to continue giving updates forever. They're not obligated to do that. And because they give updates, Google isn't obligated to do it too.

If you'd like your expectations to be met, find Bob and he might give you some cookies.

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#218

Post by cheeze »

ajross wrote: post #161
programminggeek wrote: post #147

Android's UI as a "media consumption" device is terrible compared to what Kindle Fire and Nook have done. The average user (say your parents), aren't going to go to the Google Play Store (which is a terrible non-obvious) name to buy books, movies, apps, etc. unless you explain to them that you have to use the Play app to download content. Kindle Fire nailed the obviousness of this with the top bar being labeled with…

I think the first point is pretty suspect, and definitely not a trait of the "average user" (who, on a tablet, remains a techie early adopter). You get content the same place you get apps. You're saying that the "average user" can't download an app, either? I tend to agree that "Play" as a brand is a terrible name, though. But then I feel that way about most marketing, and find my intuition there routinely wrong. So…

My grandmother and parents all have iPads. No, they wouldn't be able to download an app unless it was blatantly obvious (see: app store).

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#219

Post by tptacek »

chc wrote: post #199
tptacek wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitpicks: The iPad 1 will be (conservatively guessing) 2.5 years old when iOS 6 is actually released. The Nexus One was less than 2 years old when ICS was released. iOS 6 does support the iPhone 3GS, which will be over 3 years old when iOS 6 is released.

The 3GS is not a good comparison, as it's still being sold. It may have been released a while ago, but it is still a current product. Support for the original iPad was cut off after about two years, as was support for the original iPhone — because those were both actually old (in the sense of "not current") products. They got very slightly longer support periods than the original Nexus, but they got the same sort of…

"Support for the original iPad was cut off"? What? Isn't the current version of iOS 5.1.1? Doesn't the iPad 1 run it?

I'm not sure what the discontinuation date matters; if you bought your Nexus One in the short window of time Google sold it, you got less than 2 years support. If you bought your 3GS in its first year, it's still supported today, and will be in Fall as well.

Re: Nexus 7, Made for Google Play

#220

Post by drzaiusapelord »

awolf wrote: post #169

The 7" form factor: big enough to be a pain in the ass to carry and small enough to be useless for most tablet stuff anyway. In my opinion, a mobile device should have a keyboard big enough for me to type using ten fingers, or it should fit in my pocket. Using something in between baffles me.

Agreed. I had a color nook before my transformer and the difference is night and day. The 7" is essentially a super ebook reader. Its useless for comics, magazines, non-mobile web, tv/movies, etc. My phone is almost 5". Not sure why I need a non-4G device that is merely 2" larger.

I suspect google knows it can't reach that nice price point with a 10" screen and knows the 7" market is ripe for stealing from Amazon. Its sad that its conceded the 10" market. I'd love a $299 10" google tablet to replace my aging Transformer.

The really awful part of this situation is that perhaps Google is ashamed at the lack of apps that can make use of a 10" screen. A lot of my apps are simply phone apps that look terrible on my tablet.

Its a shame there's no real pricing on the MS Surface yet. I could really see myself with one of those if they're $499 or less. I'd rather spend $499 on a super tablet than $199 on a media consumption device with little storage and not a lot of ports.

Google is gunning for the Fire/Kindle crowd here and I think its going to work. I prefer reading on an LCD where I can control the color scheme and where I can dip into using a proper browser now and again. e-ink is more than a bit over-rated and the Fire is just poorly engineered.

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