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Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

sfchronicle.com

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Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#211

Post by serf »

senordevnyc wrote: post #210
josephcsible wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Speed is the most dangerous aspect of motor vehicles Not in the way you think. If you're going 55 because it's the speed limit, but everyone else is going 70, you're the most likely driver to cause a collision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Rear-ending someone going slower than you is not their fault.

>Rear-ending someone going slower than you is not their fault.

who gives a shit who is at fault when they're in an accident?

the goal is to avoid the event all together, not to have a scapegoat.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#212

Post by guiambros »

underyx wrote: post #148
billjings wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a good friend who's a Lyft driver. According to him, all drivers are rated on cleanliness by passengers; if you're dinged for a weird smell, there are lasting financial consequences (even if it was for reasons outside of your control, e.g. using a Lyft provided rental while repairing from a traffic accident). We'll see how Waymo handles it! It will definitely be Waymo's problem to solve, though.

Their policy from an email sent out Oct 2023: > Many of our riders choose Waymo for the clean and consistent vehicle we offer. To ensure every rider gets this experience, we’ll be applying a vehicle cleaning fee for riders who leave a mess behind in the vehicle, such as vomit, excessive trash, and smoking odors. > For those that self-report their mess during their ride (not including smoking), the fee will be $50. Fo…

Plus there's a camera in the car. Pretty easy to keep riders accountable, and solve any dispute.

Compare that to other car sharing options (e.g. Zipcar, where cars are usually a mess, but there's no way to keep users accountable).

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#213

Post by aprilthird2021 »

tanvach wrote: post #7

We recently started using Waymo more often: - Quality of Lyft and Uber rides have gone down significantly. - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get. - AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver. - No chatty driver to disturb our sleeping baby. Negatives: - Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. - Pick up and drop off tend to be a small walk from requested locations…

You are using a product before enshittification begins, of course it's much nicer.

When it's been 28 quarters of general availability of Wayno and profits need to keep growing faster than before, they'll get dirty, the AC will stop being fixed, they'll start getting flats / engine trouble, etc. in the middle of the drive.

Enjoy it while it lasts. Be sure you move quickly to the next new thing before this one goes downhill too :/

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#214

Post by aprilthird2021 »

quectophoton wrote: post #117
firloop wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rarely discussed negative to Waymo is that they drive slower than human drivers. Anecdotally they can be 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic, and it's not uncommon to see human drivers do unsafe moves to pass a Waymo.

> Anecdotally they can be 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic I don't know anything about USA, but my understanding of other humans tells me that "Waymo is 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic" actually means "Waymo drives at the legal speed limit for that location, without surpassing it".

You're definitely right. In most of the US there's a speed limit and there's an understood amount over the speed limit you can still drive and cops won't bother you.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#215

Post by sbuttgereit »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #142
jessriedel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t match my experience in SF. I see 10% premium over Uber/Lyft, with Lyft and Waymo displaying wait times that are ~3 slower, but actual wait times are the same. (Uber consistently underestimates in my experience.)

I also haven't had Waymo assign a car and then decide to assign it elsewhere sometime before arrival. I have had Uber/Lyft cars that were going to come to me and then some time before picking me up, they change their mind and I get to start a new wait for a new car/driver... worse, I've had that happen a few times in a row on some occasions. I've seen more in the 10% premium ballpark for most Waymo rides (for just th…

As an aside, Waymo does have a feature which allows you to add stops that, if within certain parameters like the trip being within 30 minutes (I believe) that it kinda treats it as one trip which is rather cheaper than multiple independent trips.

So, for example, I had to pick up my kid from school the other day and found out last minute I wouldn't have a car. So I booked a Waymo, selected my destination, and then also selected that it would be "round trip" in the app. The car got me to the school and an option in the Waymo app for "ready for pickup" was available; the car left after it dropped me off. After my kid came out, I clicked that ready button and another car came to the school and took us home.

The price for the round trip was just over $20. The price for two independent trips would have been about $10 more (if I'm calculating & remembering correctly). So another interesting feature on the pricing discussion which, to my knowledge, isn't an option with the other ridesharing/taxi businesses.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#216

Post by coolspot »

Once it goes really mainstream, I can see angry Uber/Lyft drivers and/or their supporters destroy Waymos in large quantities (isolated incidents already have happened multiple times in SF [0][1]), driving economical feasibility to zero and causing Waymo to cease operations in some cities.

[0] - https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/11/24069251/waymo-driverless...

[1] - https://abc7news.com/waymo-sf-attacked-self-driving-car-inci...

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#217

Post by slimsag »

crazygringo wrote: post #87
laluser wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won’t last long. Waymo has a treasure chest waiting to be deployed as soon as they start expanding more.

I genuinely expect that there will be a point at which manufacturing becomes the bottleneck. That's going to be a lot of cars to build. I really wonder if and when they expand to a lot more car manufacturers and models, just to avoid supply chain issues.

I live 15 minutes from downtown Phoenix, and it took them 2 years to expand to my location. Over 4 years after Waymo launched beta testing here..

Waymo cannot take me on the freeway (backstreets only)

Waymo cannot go to the entire city of Peoria, Surprise, Goodyear..

Waymo cannot go to the entire western half of the state.

If you live 30 minutes from the downtown city centre, there is a 30% chance Waymo can go there. Waymo serves higher-end areas only today (Scottsdale, Tempe, Chandler) - if you live in a poorer area, no Waymo for you.

I have family who lives in Scottsdale and Surprise, Waymo can't take me there.

My dentist is less than a mile from my house, Waymo can't take me there - but can take me to a fashion mall in chandler.

Is it better than Uber/Lyft? Experience wise, sure, but their snail's pace expansion is disheartening. Not to mention the freeway issue.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#218

Post by diebeforei485 »

tanvach wrote: post #7

We recently started using Waymo more often: - Quality of Lyft and Uber rides have gone down significantly. - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get. - AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver. - No chatty driver to disturb our sleeping baby. Negatives: - Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. - Pick up and drop off tend to be a small walk from requested locations…

> - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get. - AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver.

How much of the cars being clean, quiet, and having HVAC working is just because it's new?

A few years down the line the cars will be old (until they're replaced) and won't be as clean or quiet or have reliable AC. It will probably become like aircraft where they prioritize maintenance of safety-critical features but not so much the seat comfort.

There are lots of upsides to not having a driver in the car, but I wouldn't count on the cars always being nice.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#220

Post by alooPotato »

akira2501 wrote: post #96
alooPotato wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of cleaning goes way down when you do it in bulk at a service center rather than individual lyft/uber drivers trying to do it. A standardized car also helps.

If you can incorporate the cost of large horizontal demand spikes into the off hours and you can find cheap enough labor to fill it, perhaps. The time spent travelling out of service, in cleaning, and back into service are all lost opportunities. Hopefully you can clean a very large number of cars in a very short period of time. The cars may be standard. The messes, obviously, will not be.

The cars will all charge overnight. Clean them there. Getting to and from the charging stations / cleaning depots is roughly free. It’s just the electricity which is like 5 cents a mile roughly. Utilization at night is really low anyways so not much opportunity cost.

The overall point being way more efficient to clean than an Uber.

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