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U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

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Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#211

Post by kerkeslager »

PeterStuer wrote: post #143
klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

Back in the day my country still had obligatory military service for the oldest male child of the family. Everyone had to do this. IQ tests were used to sort people coming in. The military does not only need highly functioning autonomous operators. There were many more menial positions in cleaning, catering, hauling and warm body canon fodder than there were scouts or special forces. I guess these days many of those…

> Back in the day my country still had obligatory military service for the oldest male child of the family. Everyone had to do this. IQ tests were used to sort people coming in.

With due respect for your country, which country you're talking about is highly relevant. There are That starts with the fact that the US doesn't do compulsory military service, because soldiers who don't want to be there aren't effective soldiers (note that Israel does do compulsory military service, which is because they have different problems than we do).

> The military does not only need highly functioning autonomous operators. There were many more menial positions in cleaning, catering, hauling and warm body canon fodder than there were scouts or special forces.

Thinking that "warm body cannon fodder" is something the military needs demonstrates a bit of a misconception on how modern militaries work.

Cleaning, catering, hauling, etc. need to be handled by high-functioning people as well, because in a warzone, attacks on things like cleanliness to reduce morale, or attacks on food and other supplies, are effective attacks.

All this is to say, that if the US military doesn't want low-IQ folks, there are good reasons for that.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#212

Post by pimpampum »

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

The title says exactly what it is (unless it was posted with a different title before).

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#213

Post by epgui »

alemanek wrote: post #203
austin-cheney wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing on the ASVAB the Army cares about is the GT score. When I took the test as a dumb high school kid I was only smarter than 79% of the population and had a GT score of 107, which is too dumb to become an officer. Many years later after almost 7 years programming full time in the corporate world I retook the ASVAB. Then I was smarter than 98% of the population and had a GT score of 129. The max is 130, so…

There are similar results for other IQ tests as well. You can study and practice to improve your score. Which shows that they aren’t really measuring raw intelligence. But, that doesn’t mean they aren’t measuring fitness for a task at least at that point in time.

Intelligence is a fuzzy concept, but it cannot really be separated from knowledge and experience.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#215

Post by mlrtime »

nvm0n2 wrote: post #167
nindalf wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ hasn’t declined though. The Flynn effect means that the median IQ has gone up steadily every decade since they started measuring. It’s unclear why. Maybe better nutrition, better schooling, less leaded petrol - hard to tell. So an 85 IQ person today is substantially more intelligent than an 85 IQ person in the Vietnam war. That said, the modern infantry man’s job is more complex. I would postulate that the job’s c…

Sadly not. The Flynn effect appears to be obsolete. In many countries it stopped in the 90s and IQs have actually gone down a bit since then. Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect#/media/File:Sunde...

For others interested, this doesn't seem to be fully accepted. A few studies in EU countries (and Australia)) have shown slight regressions from past increases.

No studies done in the US which is the cohort here.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#216

Post by mlrtime »

kerkeslager wrote: post #211
PeterStuer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the day my country still had obligatory military service for the oldest male child of the family. Everyone had to do this. IQ tests were used to sort people coming in. The military does not only need highly functioning autonomous operators. There were many more menial positions in cleaning, catering, hauling and warm body canon fodder than there were scouts or special forces. I guess these days many of those…

> Back in the day my country still had obligatory military service for the oldest male child of the family. Everyone had to do this. IQ tests were used to sort people coming in. With due respect for your country, which country you're talking about is highly relevant. There are That starts with the fact that the US doesn't do compulsory military service, because soldiers who don't want to be there aren't effective sol…

I'm guessing a former Soviet country (oldest male child) but I could be way off.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#217

Post by figassis »

alemanek wrote: post #203
austin-cheney wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing on the ASVAB the Army cares about is the GT score. When I took the test as a dumb high school kid I was only smarter than 79% of the population and had a GT score of 107, which is too dumb to become an officer. Many years later after almost 7 years programming full time in the corporate world I retook the ASVAB. Then I was smarter than 98% of the population and had a GT score of 129. The max is 130, so…

There are similar results for other IQ tests as well. You can study and practice to improve your score. Which shows that they aren’t really measuring raw intelligence. But, that doesn’t mean they aren’t measuring fitness for a task at least at that point in time.

We also seem to take it as fact that intelligence is an unchanging attribute you get at birth. Wouldn’t your brain upgrade itself as it optimizes for the world around it?

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#218

Post by mlrtime »

diceduckmonk wrote: post #192
klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

I was constantly failing classes in high school, but I ended up as an engineer at FANG company without breaking a sweat. My cofounder didn’t finish high school and worked as an HFT trader. People here who are judging people based on their high school accomplishments must be coming from a sheltered middle class background.

>People here who are judging

Shouldn't be surprising, in any group there will be a normal distribution. A person that didn't finish high school and succeeding isn't shocking, but falls way to the right of the distribution.

Of course they exist, but until you find one yourself one would think the same.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#219

Post by graphe »

Krasnol wrote: post #208
graphe wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not Russian. A large part of the Russian population of Russia was taken from China in the early 1900s, and even then I think they're sending many foreigners of russia. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/russias-ethnic-minorities-...

Just because they've been "taken from China" over a century ago doesn't mean they're not "Russian" today. They surely have Russian documents and were allowed to vote in Russia for their president. They might be ethnic minorities, but this fact comes with the size of this country. And yes, I'm aware of the point you want to make. I do know that there is a huge racist issue at play. They're still Russians, though. Thos…

Thank you.

When people say "Russian" they have an expectation. What is the difference between these foreigners and there ethnic groups in your eyes?

>They surely have Russian documents and were allowed to vote in Russia for their president.

I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny but you are.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#220

Post by mlrtime »

PeterisP wrote: post #176
johnnyanmac wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow inferior or stupid people. I took it the opposite way. High schools are designed to provide a bare floor of knowledge a citizen should achieve. The top side may be extremely competitive, but the bar for passing high school is meant to be low. Someone who can't pass that and doesn't have developmental issues likely have environm…

I think you shouldn't equate "didn't graduate" with "can't graduate" - I feel that a large part, perhaps most, high school dropouts didn't drop out because of various social issues, and for a young person without a high-school diploma, very likely lack of money and potential jobs, and very likely a lack of a supportive home environment, the army can provide a stable employment and a community that has its issues but…

Correct, and a drill master has a lot more authority for discipline than a school teacher.
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