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U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

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Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#201

Post by graphe »

Krasnol wrote: post #180
paganel wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drone thing is just a fantasy some of us nerds like to tell ourselves, I've seen it in some reddit subs, too. As per North Korea, they were able to come up with 1 million artillery shells for their friends the Russians, while the West couldn't do the same for their friends the Ukrainians [1], I'd say that North Korea got the better of the West here. [1] https://unn.ua/en/news/it-seems-that-north-korea-is-a-more-e…

We'll see about that when the war is over. At the moment it's not NKs shells that keep the war rolling but the huge Russian population which allows for a seemingly endless supply of corpses to be.

They're not Russian. A large part of the Russian population of Russia was taken from China in the early 1900s, and even then I think they're sending many foreigners of russia. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/russias-ethnic-minorities-...

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#202

Post by kerkeslager »

mihaaly wrote: post #194
klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

'Some', 'could', 'mostly', not too strong arguments for the abolishment of generic rules applied on all. 'Some' 'could' see that the ability of jumping the requirements of education is 'mostly' coincides with a certain level of mental abilities. 'Some' smart people do not participate in organized education and 'some' graduates regardless of modest abilities, but those are never arguments for the generic population an…

> Some', 'could', 'mostly', not too strong arguments for the abolishment of generic rules applied on all.

"Some", "could", and "mostly" are words that people use when they're concerned with saying what's true, not when they have a weak argument. The facts are rarely absolutes and if you don't use qualifying words like that, what you're saying is rarely strictly true.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#203

Post by alemanek »

austin-cheney wrote: post #174
nindalf wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That standardised test administered by the US military has some history. The idea was that folks who were below an 85IQ would be harder to train. During the Vietnam war they tried abandoning the requirement and the results were sad. It cost the military a lot more in remedial training, but the real tragedy is that these folks died at 3 times the rate of people who would have passed the test. They weren’t cut out to b…

The only thing on the ASVAB the Army cares about is the GT score. When I took the test as a dumb high school kid I was only smarter than 79% of the population and had a GT score of 107, which is too dumb to become an officer. Many years later after almost 7 years programming full time in the corporate world I retook the ASVAB. Then I was smarter than 98% of the population and had a GT score of 129. The max is 130, so…

There are similar results for other IQ tests as well. You can study and practice to improve your score. Which shows that they aren’t really measuring raw intelligence. But, that doesn’t mean they aren’t measuring fitness for a task at least at that point in time.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#204

Post by Gud »

Magridal wrote: post #145
Gud wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine I met while serving in Afghanistan, He was working for the Department of Agriculture, trying to get the Afghan farmers to grow saffron instead of poppy. He was a professor in agronomy and would help his students back home in the US with their assignments. He had signed up for the US army and ended up serving in the Special Forces in Vietnam for 2 years. He dropped out of school when he was 13. In my…

You are making an assumption that a person dropping out of school at 13 in the ~1960s would have the same education level as someone dropping out of school at 13 today, let alone that the conditions and circumstances one would find themselves in having dropped out are equivalent to the 1960s. Frankly, especially with the crumbling and cracking discipline, order, and hierarchy in the U.S. military now, you are also ma…

All I know is that my army captain was the first real role model I ever had. Perhaps it doesn't work out that way for everyone, but I bet it does for many.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#205

Post by ClumsyPilot »

freefrog334433 wrote: post #70
hipadev23 wrote: post #10

If you want more recruits, you simply need to pay more.

It surprises me that this obvious solution is the one the government avoids the most. I would expect salaries to keep pace with the private sector. Especially when the cost of mistakes by a CEO (company goes bankrupt) is much less than the cost of a mistake by an officer (many people die). Might also stop the systemic corruption in the military AKA the revolving door between the military and private contractors.

2008 and Boeing CEOs killed plenty of people

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#206

Post by petre »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #178
petre wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the current Ukraine context: tech + a lot of dumb 155 mm shells, highly mobile artillery. Although guided shells would be even more useful if they were cheaper to build. Russia's human waves were just means to reduce the prison population: practical stalinism 101. They are phasing out prisoner benefits as the recruiting pool is getting smaller. Also there is an increased chance Putin might order be mass m…

> Also there is an increased chance Putin might order be mass mobilization after he wins the elections in May. Increased but still highly unlikely. The Russian military inducts ~260,000 men annually just from conscription. Now that the Ukrainians have exhausted their supplies of ammunition, manpower, and funding, it's unlikely that the AFU can sustain its ability to attrite Russian manpower faster than it can be repl…

The only way for Putin to win in Ukraine is to open new frontlines in Europe to divert attention and resources. And the most likely place is between the Baltics and Poland. That's exactly why part of Steadfast Defender 2024 exercise is taking place there.

A surprisingly straightforward article from Xinhua correspondent Zhang Zhang:

"The central locations involved in the drill are the Baltic nations, identified by NATO as particularly vulnerable to a possible Russian assault. Other areas include Norway and Romania, situated on the outskirts of the alliance; Poland on the alliance's eastern flank; and Germany as a central hub for reinforcements."

https://english.news.cn/20240128/95fbdec4ab7b4285b8f017ffeb1...

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#207

Post by pimpampum »

nindalf wrote: post #126
klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

That standardised test administered by the US military has some history. The idea was that folks who were below an 85IQ would be harder to train. During the Vietnam war they tried abandoning the requirement and the results were sad. It cost the military a lot more in remedial training, but the real tragedy is that these folks died at 3 times the rate of people who would have passed the test. They weren’t cut out to b…

I wonder how IQ higer than 85 relates to the chances of dying, maybe still relevant? There's probably a sweet spot not too dumb but dumb enough to join the military.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#208

Post by Krasnol »

graphe wrote: post #201
Krasnol wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see about that when the war is over. At the moment it's not NKs shells that keep the war rolling but the huge Russian population which allows for a seemingly endless supply of corpses to be.

They're not Russian. A large part of the Russian population of Russia was taken from China in the early 1900s, and even then I think they're sending many foreigners of russia. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/russias-ethnic-minorities-...

Just because they've been "taken from China" over a century ago doesn't mean they're not "Russian" today. They surely have Russian documents and were allowed to vote in Russia for their president. They might be ethnic minorities, but this fact comes with the size of this country. And yes, I'm aware of the point you want to make. I do know that there is a huge racist issue at play. They're still Russians, though.

Those foreigners are negligible compared to all those actual Russians.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#210

Post by tyingq »

nunez wrote: post #188
refurb wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t underpaid, at least not on the low end. A raw recruit (E1) gets $23,000 per year. Housing, food, work clothing and healthcare is paid for. After tax, it’s like ~$1,500 in completely discretionary income. This is why you get 19 year old new recruits buying new sports cars. They can afford it. The smart ones start socking away money while they are young. A new officer (O1) gets $43,000 per year. If they are…

I've worked with many that have retired and entered the private sector. My understanding is that they continue to make their tax-free enlisted salary (via their pension) after retirement on top of whatever they're making in their private sector job. For high-ranking officers, this can be >$100k! Many of these folks have second homes, a small RE portfolio, and more!

It's some percentage of their pay, depending on how long they were in. There's a few different plans, but roughly...50% if you're in 20 years, 75% at 30 years, etc. Also, only a percentage of the base pay. Not of the housing allowances and other pay they receive while active.

https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Retirement/

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