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Signs that it's time to leave a company

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Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#211

Post by jay_kyburz »

willhslade wrote: post #112
3737hdhd7372 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, something about working hybrid just feels like “why are we doing this?” It’s like an awkward inbetween I also don’t get why companies seem unphased about paying for a giant office that is empty the majority of the week

Not to peek behind the curtain, but it's pretty difficult to hold down 2 jobs when you need to physically be in the office 2 days a week. Which, if my anecdotal evidence in my circle is to be believed, that was definitely happening during the pandemic.

I wonder if there would be a massive boost in productivity if everybody was doing mandatory pair programming.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#212

Post by Dibes »

lucidguppy wrote: post #34

I don't understand this fascination with central offices. We live in the year 2024. We should be able to look at our workforce, find small offices, and have hub and spoke networks of offices - and work from home as a fallback. Rent a condo, do a communal office, if you want more close collaboration - shuffle your teams to colocate them - not force them into 1hr commutes into a fucking empty office. Our infrastructure…

Our company has exactly this and I think it works really well! We are a small engineering team spread out across 4 states with tiny offices/hubs for those that want to get together. I work with a friend in town and we go to an office 3 days a week on the same days and I love the schedule.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#214

Post by pm90 »

lucidguppy wrote: post #34

I don't understand this fascination with central offices. We live in the year 2024. We should be able to look at our workforce, find small offices, and have hub and spoke networks of offices - and work from home as a fallback. Rent a condo, do a communal office, if you want more close collaboration - shuffle your teams to colocate them - not force them into 1hr commutes into a fucking empty office. Our infrastructure…

Taking the most generous interpretation of this desire: It might just be because management is just not used to fully remote. Most workplaces aren’t healthy and satisfying, they’re somewhat toxic and in many cases incredibly so. The adaptable managers that have a consensus based management style find a way; those that are used to doing things by decree find themselves ineffective in controlling the direction of their reports. Literally the number one priority of leadership is to control the direction of the team; if they’re unable to do so there’s not much else for them to do.

Any company seriously considering adapting to the new environment should consider some kind of retraining program for their managers and have a support system that will help them adapt.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#215

Post by pm90 »

imiric wrote: post #85
hibikir wrote: post #18

Hit the nail in the head. A growing company has plenty of opportunity for learning, promotion, making new things, and retooling old ones to match the growth of business. This means there are very few zero sum games, either at the IC or management level. When growth stops, there's little chances to gain status by solving problems: Someone already has status, and really doesn't want to lose it. Those frustrated with th…

Eh, I don't get this constant growth mentality that pervades tech companies. It seems more related to investors wanting to see an ever growing return on their investments than it being healthy for the company and its products. Can't a company reach an equilibrium where the right people are doing the right things, and everyone is happy with their role and compensation? Sure, people may leave and be replaced, and even…

There is a logic to the hyper growth style in software. Software products’ success are driven by network effects: the more users you have, the more features/integrations you support etc.

And if you don’t dominate the market, a more hungry competitor absolutely will. Software products can be developed incredibly quickly.

It is capitalism at its best (or worst, depending on how you see it). While it might be desirable to work in a more stable setting, without some kind of regulatory protection or stickiness this is hard to achieve in practice.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#216

Post by jay_kyburz »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #98
29athrowaway wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the largest software projects in history have been implemented by remote workers. Like the Linux kernel. But if you require to read people's reactions and body language and try to figure out if they are telling the truth, or brag about your socioeconomic status or appearance, or if you need to assert dominance over others, or do social engineering like mirroring other's movements, then face to face is perhaps…

You're summing up a pretty wide spectrum of things as "distrust". If a junior engineer says they understand what I'm asking for and will deliver it in 2 weeks, but actually they don't fully understand and will deliver half of it in 3 weeks, I wouldn't typically characterize that as them lying or being untrustworthy. But it's a problem that's a lot easier to detect and solve in person. (It's also, not coincidentally,…

2 week deadlines is way to long for a junior. I would be reading and discussing a juniors code every day.

Even mid level programmers should be reporting progress every day.

10 working days of code is a hell of a lot of code.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#217

Post by arp242 »

pm90 wrote: post #215
imiric wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I don't get this constant growth mentality that pervades tech companies. It seems more related to investors wanting to see an ever growing return on their investments than it being healthy for the company and its products. Can't a company reach an equilibrium where the right people are doing the right things, and everyone is happy with their role and compensation? Sure, people may leave and be replaced, and even…

There is a logic to the hyper growth style in software. Software products’ success are driven by network effects: the more users you have, the more features/integrations you support etc. And if you don’t dominate the market, a more hungry competitor absolutely will. Software products can be developed incredibly quickly. It is capitalism at its best (or worst, depending on how you see it). While it might be desirable…

For some B2C products that's true, but for most of B2B products it's not, and it's not for a lot of B2C either.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#218

Post by davidw »

opportune wrote: post #13

Definitely feeling this at another FAANG I think there’s something about post-pandemic work in software that just isn’t working. I don’t think it’s just interest rates or a hiring downturn, nor immediate causes like founders leaving (because I see this sickness at most big tech companies these days). Personally, I believe that hybrid work is not going well. Fully remote teams are good, fully onsite teams are good. Wi…

> I believe that hybrid work is not going well. Fully remote teams are good, fully onsite teams are good

I don't work here any more but I wrote this a few years ago about how there's a 'tipping point' with remote work:

https://business.dutchie.com/post/dutchies-remote-work-cultu...

tl;dr if you have 1 remote person and 9 people in the office, that remote person is just someone to hand work to but not really "part of the team". If everyone has to use the 'remote tools' rather than go chat over lunch, then remote is going to work pretty well in a lot of situations.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#219

Post by jay_kyburz »

vlaxx wrote: post #93
lucidguppy wrote: post #34

I don't understand this fascination with central offices. We live in the year 2024. We should be able to look at our workforce, find small offices, and have hub and spoke networks of offices - and work from home as a fallback. Rent a condo, do a communal office, if you want more close collaboration - shuffle your teams to colocate them - not force them into 1hr commutes into a fucking empty office. Our infrastructure…

> I don't understand this fascination with central offices. It's not about you, it's about them. What they control, what they own, what they have. They are in love with the feeling of dominance in a room full of people. They love to see the minions that they command. Its about being able to visualize and understand the domain that they control.

I wouldn't want to work in a company with strong "us" and "them" culture. If I don't feel everybody is working towards the same goals and is receiving a fair piece of the pie I would go somewhere else.

Running your own company for a while really helps see both sides of the equation.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#220

Post by FireBeyond »

willhslade wrote: post #112
3737hdhd7372 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, something about working hybrid just feels like “why are we doing this?” It’s like an awkward inbetween I also don’t get why companies seem unphased about paying for a giant office that is empty the majority of the week

Not to peek behind the curtain, but it's pretty difficult to hold down 2 jobs when you need to physically be in the office 2 days a week. Which, if my anecdotal evidence in my circle is to be believed, that was definitely happening during the pandemic.

I have seen companies who have mandated "You _will_ be on video when you're on Zoom calls", which I think is much to the same end, in varying ways (are you working from another office, are you multitasking meetings, etc).
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