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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

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Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#211

Post by mrguyorama »

TheJoeMan wrote: post #68
crazygringo wrote: post #24

I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…

To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor choice to get the point across. It’s been established ( https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-in... ) that the Whitmer plot was run by the FBI itself, in a way having agents LARPing as terrorists. Also, I would hope the real LARPing community can feel safe enough to share tips on what to do if they run into police while running around t…

Just like terrorism, if the person saying "Let's kidnap a government official" is an FBI agent but you didn't know, you still decided to conspire with that idea. The reason the bar for entrapment is so high is that the societal expectation is that you WON'T DO A BAD THING, even if 30 CIA agents all offer to sleep with you or give you a billion dollars or prepare everything for you and you just have to sign a sheet of paper.

You probably shouldn't conspire to kidnap someone, regardless of who came up with the idea first. You are expected to just not engage with the guy suggesting it.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#212

Post by jjk166 »

falcolas wrote: post #101
georgeecollins wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define the difference between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does. I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battl…

> But LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem. Just saw a video talking a bit facetiously about this. The question is, "What's the difference between Paintball and LARPing?" Dressing up and using made-up names and speaking specialized terminology and engaging in make-believe combat... They decided there is no difference. (This could just as easily be ai…

At the end of the day there is no clear boundary between simulation for fun and for practice, the real question is what are you simulating. If some people were playing paintball in an accurate mockup of a government building, with one team taking up the positions of government guards and persons of interest, I don't think it's absurd to view that with some suspicion, particularly if there are other reasons to suspect it is more than just a game.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#213

Post by jjk166 »

Karunamon wrote: post #65
ethbr1 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at this from an assumption-of-LARPing. Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes in them. When interviewed without charge, imagine McVeigh claims that it's part of his LARPing activities. What standards would you suggest that agent applies, in order to avoid a fa…

Another way to phrase that first sentence is "assumption of innocence". And while random commentators on the internet are not obligated to honor it, law enforcement is supposed to.

Assumption of innocence is for the court. The prosecution and law enforcement are not supposed to assume innocence, they are supposed to do everything in their legal power to prove guilt. There are things they can't do without reasonable suspicion, or probable cause, but these are vastly lower thresholds.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#214

Post by seanw444 »

H8crilA wrote: post #206
langsoul-com wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should look into the middle east a bit more. Taliban are still around and now control the place. Individuals might not have heavy weapons to start. But with enough time, weapon destructivness reaches a parity.

Yes you can wage guerilla warfare for extended periods of time if the conditions are right - i.e. if you have local support of the population, and someone outside is getting you the guns to harass the official administration / occupants. Now think about whether either of those conditions apply in a particular scenario, then remember you need both. Afghans obviously hated being invaded and helped "their guys", they al…

Sounds like it applies here to me.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#215

Post by seanw444 »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #141

Honestly, based on my life experience, I disagree with quite some criteria that the FBI uses here to distinguish between LARP and Violent Extremism: Audience: "Spectators accepted or desired" vs "Secrecy demanded" Quite some LARP people who want to avoid spectators, since quite some conservative or religious people tend to associate some fantasy stuff to be "satanistic" or "sacrilegious". Thus, to avoid really annoyi…

I believe this is referring to military LARPing.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#216

Post by danans »

cronix wrote: post #49
ethbr1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article also contains >> [recommendations to probe and challenge] motives during an interview (e.g., “If you were just LARPing, why did you need live explosives?”)

The answer is probably the same as why Hollywood uses them in movies. For realism.

Movie pyrotechnicians are registered with and regulated by government agencies.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#217

Post by seanw444 »

Excellent writeup, redcoats.

Did everyone forget that the US only exists because of treason and insurrection directly sparked from individuals refusing to allow someone else to determine whether they can arm themselves? Probably. Public school doesn't like to focus on the details anymore.

If Sam Adams existed today, he'd be on an FBI/ATF watchlist.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#218

Post by jjk166 »

H8crilA wrote: post #175
kramerger wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy/normal ratio among milsim larpers is EXTREMLY high. Just listen to the language they use in YT videos to describe other participants and general public There is this odd thing about the human brain that as soon as it is in a group and have tools of violence at hand it will often start planing to take over the society

Luckily individual soldiers without heavy equipment (at least some artillery) are more or less useless in a proper military showdown. Has been the case at least since WW2. ISIS was a good example, they were being quickly defeated by pretty much everyone involved in the Syrian conflict.

ISIS overran large portions of multiple countries before major powers started a coordinated effort of local ground operations and precision airstrikes to defeat it, and even then it took years.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#219

Post by gs17 »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #159
CamperBob2 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if people who want to LARP as bank robbers could be paired with people who want to LARP as bankers, tellers, and cops, that could be an answer to the incipient commercial real-estate crisis. Just a matter of getting the right people in the same room together.

I would pay money for this, but probably not as much as it would cost (assuming that people who want to LARP as bankers/tellers and can't get those jobs don't really exist).

I would also love to do this, but the closest we'll probably get for a long time is some VR heist game (Payday 2 had a VR mode that was alright, but it comes with all of Payday's unrealism, which is sort of the wrong kind of unrealism for me). It's in that category of "wait for the Holodeck" things.
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