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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#211

Post by SoftTalker »

rajin444 wrote: post #127
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #17

As a teenager I was diagnosed with "ADD". Very intelligent, but unable to focus or complete assignments. My life habits were carb heavy unhealthy food (from the cafeteria), soda, lack of sleep due to long school commute, not much exercise As an adult, I eat no carbs, all meat and vegetables, I work from home and sleep in as far as I need every night. My thinking is laser sharp. They tried to medicate me with all sort…

I used to be really big on trust the experts, seek authorities for advice, etc etc. Especially for areas involving mental / general health. Specifics like fixing a broken arm I’m still on the experts side :) Decades later I’ve had many (eerily similar) experiences to what you detailed above. I’ve gotten the best results evaluating issues on my own / with the help of a few trusted sources. Expert advice is about as re…

> I think the majority of modern healthcare exists to make a profit

100%. Healthcare is a big, big business.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#212

Post by lostapathy »

legitster wrote: post #47
jobs_throwaway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we have school busses. Why are children being tasked with transporting other children to school?

School busses are shared across age ranges. So teenagers get the first bus, then middle schoolers get one an hour later, then grade schoolers. So if you punt the highschool bus to later, you are either making for a very late school day, or making younger kids wake up earlier. Or the solution could be to triple the cost of school transportation.

> Or the solution could be to triple the cost of school transportation.

Yes, let's try to kill the one form of public transportation we have in the USA that works decently and is widely available.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#213

Post by waboremo »

xyzelement wrote: post #128
avgcorrection wrote: post #93

Pet peeve of mine: some older adults are proud that they get up early. And that’s OK in isolation. The problem though is that older adults rule society moreso than younger adults, and certainly compared to teenagers. So for many older adults it feels natural to go to bed early and to get up early. But then we as a society confuse that with universal “good behavior”/good character, so everyone has to dance to that tun…

I do think there's actual correlation between getting up earlier and achievement. I don't know many successful people who get up super late. Don't know if that's correlation or causation, just that there's something to getting up early to crush it.

There are only a certain amount of hours in a day that you can be actively chasing something. Your energy depletes, places close, sun goes down. So it doesn't matter if you get up at 4AM or at 10AM, what matters is the active hours you give yourself. The 4AM person is probably going to sleep earlier than the 10AM, so it equals out.

The only real catch about this all is the simple fact society is based around the sun, and so if you are someone who wants to get up extremely late (2PM+), you have to work harder to accommodate. But those are very rare outside of health conditions. Even most night owls who say they're not a morning person, tend to wake up before 12PM purely because of how society functions. They can't have meetings when others are asleep!

Although the interesting part is how much this changes in the future, with increasing levels of remote work and automation to compensate.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#214

Post by d136o »

andy_ppp wrote: post #178
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

I dunno man, pre-civilisation and education wasn't exactly much fun either. I'd rather be a part of the system that basically gives us everything from food to iPhones and the Internet than fight against it (while avoiding predators in the wild). This is not to say that education, especially for boys and young men couldn't be made considerably better.

Sometimes I think it’s also naive to think that food and modern conveniences (for you and your descendants) will continue to arrive if you just do your job… today you may have food on the table for your family by just showing up to work. But are you sure that whoever you work for won’t keep upping their share and reduce yours as time passes?

Maybe just maybe “the system” (as you called it) is just a seemingly more civilized way of doing what was done before: surviving.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#215

Post by jack_riminton »

sixo wrote: post #191
msla wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking everything is a conspiracy is giving the assholes too much credit. The education system is an education system. It's bad because it's underfunded, mismanaged, and pulled in multiple directions for political reasons, not to mention occasionally tasked with impossible jobs, such as keeping a roomful of emotionally disturbed children going in the same direction using only one underpaid teacher and a couple para…

I'm sympathetic to OP, it's not that it's a conspiracy--it's the survival criteria of the system. It has to "work" as an institution to go on existing. Things that make the institution of education more effective tend to happen: 1. It has to be compatible with the modern system of employment (feat the 40hr workweek, generally a commute, workers who typically fit into many companies in standardized roles) 2. Opportuni…

These are excellent points. Especially the last one, the veneer of meritocracy is an important socialisation tool as much at is a sorting tool

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#216

Post by ajmurmann »

SoftTalker wrote: post #193
joezydeco wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why. We've been at our administrators for years and the response always is "the bus routes" but in reality it's because of the sports schedules. High school sports is a drain on the educational system, plain and simple. It lacks equity - an disproportionate amount of money is spent on very few children. The football coach in our HS has a Vice Principal title, so he doesn't have to teach classes but kn…

Private sports outside of school are too expensive for all but the well-off families. School sports are basically free for the participants, and they are good for kids' social development and physical health. Sports keeps many kids in high school, certainly if my oldest hadn't had cross-country and track he probably would have dropped out.

That's another difference between Europe and the US. When I grew up in Germany there was a huge amount of sports available that were taught by volunteers. Soccer, judo, karate all for free even in the rural area I grew up in. I wonder if it's possible because everyone isn't constantly threatened by looming bankruptcy if they don't save big piles of cash.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#217

Post by prawn »

fosk wrote: post #179
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

There should be two categorizations for students: highly creative students should be placed on a different path to adulthood, everybody else could use the current system. Highly creative people are more likely to be successful dropouts. To force highly creative people into this routine, is dictatorship of the mind. That's how it was for me. Edit: I upset the academics :)

Why not three? One stream for creative types, one for practical types, then the rest. For the practical stream, unless it's changed, we already do this - from year 10 (about 15yo), Australian students can begin an apprenticeship/trade. From that age group, students are choosing electives and focusing on their strengths or interest, whether STEM or arts or physical electives.

And otherwise or for highly creative people, a grounding in most other things is useful. If you're an artist of some sort, you're going to be writing supporting documentation for exhibitions, or running business admin selling your work. To some degree, I think it's healthy for people to be pushed out of their comfort zone here and there.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#218

Post by Fr0styMatt88 »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #163
Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of an aside but it’s so strange to me seeing ‘trades’ referred to as a lowly thing. Here in Australia, tradies are admired, often earn really good money and get a lot of good attention. They can work hard and put in the hours to get ahead whereas us IT guys on salary have a much more ‘fixed’ earning potential.

I have no aversion to trades and actually worked in joinery for many years before I began programming professionally. I don’t mean to look down on it at all. I actually find it absurd that I earn as much as I do compared to say, a red seal carpenter here in Canada where their breadth of skill and knowledge means more and accomplishes more than my own skill set in very tangible and crucial ways. If I could support my…

Oh just to clarify - I didn’t think you were looking down on the trades at all, it’s the sentiment expressed by the school guidance counsellor that I found strange. I’ve heard it is a very culturally-dependent thing, to be fair.

Your comment reminded me of going with my dad to a place that had a huge laser-cutting machine when I was young. They were awesome!

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#219

Post by ajmurmann »

jandrese wrote: post #192
boringg wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to discuss children as turning them into something profitable

That's the entire purpose of the school system. To make them into workers that can produce value for companies.

Having an educated electorate is a goal as well, at least in some places in the world.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#220

Post by xyzelement »

waboremo wrote: post #213
xyzelement wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think there's actual correlation between getting up earlier and achievement. I don't know many successful people who get up super late. Don't know if that's correlation or causation, just that there's something to getting up early to crush it.

There are only a certain amount of hours in a day that you can be actively chasing something. Your energy depletes, places close, sun goes down. So it doesn't matter if you get up at 4AM or at 10AM, what matters is the active hours you give yourself. The 4AM person is probably going to sleep earlier than the 10AM, so it equals out. The only real catch about this all is the simple fact society is based around the sun,…

// So it doesn't matter if you get up at 4AM or at 10AM, what matters is the active hours you give yourself. The 4AM person is probably going to sleep earlier than the 10AM, so it equals out

What I am observing is that it doesn't actually seem to equal out for whatever reason.

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