Earlier quoted context omitted.
A social media influencer with millions of followers can still be unknown to people outside of that bubble. My mom has no idea who PewDiePie is.
Are you suggesting that PewDiePie is countercultural?
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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
211–220 of 1001 posts
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you stick with the comparison they were making to cinema this is like saying a movie star is not countercultural and you'd be right. The influencers with millions of followers are not countercultural, they've broken into the mainstream and are busily selling out for money and fame. At the same time you can have countercultural activities happening on those platforms and the "true" revolutionaries will actively esc…
I think that by definition, true counterculture isn't going to happen on social media platforms.
Is culture music or is it composed of individual songs and artists? Is culture literature or is it some set of books and authors? Is culture film or is it the movies and directors? Is culture the internet or is it the content and creators?
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#213I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…
> queerness ... there’s very little cultural risk in living those glorified identities
Several US states are trying to make it illegal to be trans or even dress in a gender nonconfirming way. Queerness still carries a certain amount of real, physical risk; Norway Pride 2022 was cancelled because somebody shot up a gay bar and murdered two people.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
But what you're describing is exactly where "counterculture" flips over to "culture". It may have been counterculture at one point, but once it's grabbed up by the mainstream canon, it is no longer counterculture. This is an important element of "cool", which is essentially the ebb-and-flow of ideas between counterculture and mainstream culture.
Pretty sure BLM was a media darling from the moment it was discovered. Maybe I have a weird media bubble, but the content I saw was endlessly pro-BLM (even contortions such as the memorable CNN reporter wearing a gas mask against a burning Kenosha with the caption “fiery but mostly peaceful protests”) for most of the last decade. I can’t think of a way that BLM was ever counter-cultural.
> from the moment it was discovered
Counterculture is a like a good stock tip - if you're hearing about it, that ship has already sailed.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conservatism and traditional values can't be counter-culture since our society is based on them. It will never be counter-anything except progress.
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> Someone expressing the above sentiments in a non-sarcastic way anywhere on HN or Reddit would be downvoted to hell.
You'd be surprised. The only comments I get downvoted to Hell on are either explicitly anto-communist or are just dumb comments. Even comments where I evangelize about God are typically well received, with maybe a few triggered atheists in the replies.
If I lead with facts cutting against Bay Area Received Values narrative or highlight some of the inconsistencies of BARV themselves, I usually get quite a few upvotes.
> And I didn't even dare venture into the racial views of conservatives.
What views are these? The debate seems to be between those who think blacks, other non-whites and immigrants are typically inherently socially conservative; and those who believe these minority groups are irrevocably allied with the Democrat machine. A typical conservative view today is that non-whites have agency just as much as whites, but face constraints such as bad government programs and social pressures to conform. Ben Carson, for example, used to be hailed as a hero, a regular staple of Black History Month. But when he "came out" as a conservative, he's been belittled and seen his stature crumble, even to the point of schools removing his name.[0]
The mainstream can't tolerate a likable conservative or a non-white one, and has a lot of funny ideas about what conservatives in particular think. Most of it is projection based on a deranged (but consistent!) interpretation of Trump's presidency.
[0] https://www.outkick.com/detroit-school-board-to-remove-dr-be...
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
>BLM >LGBT >counter culture Endlessly supported by literally every news outlet, major tech company, big 5 sports league, F1000, university, and at least half of the political class. You’re not counter to any major institution, lmao. You’re not the resistance
This is such a superficial understanding of "support". They make their logo rainbow for a month. None of the groups you mentioned support police abolition, prison abolition, for instance. Police budgets still go up. Homeless encampments still get bulldozed. Black people are still killed by police. Capitalists have co-opted the least disruptive demands of advocates in an attempt to draw attention away from the actual…
Police budgets are up, but policing is down, killings by police are way down, and consequentially violent crime is way, way up. Protesters didn’t get everything, but they got a lot of what they asked for (reduction in policing, basically) and they seem content (no more major protests or riots since the precipitous drop in policing following the Floyd protests).
It seems hard to argue that there haven’t been disruptive changes considering violent crime levels (esp homicides), but I fully agree that “capitalists” (or maybe corporatists?) embraced BLM and other identity stuff because it’s a convenient distraction from substantial policy issues. A lot of folks made themselves into “useful idiots” over the last decade.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#217I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…
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> [...] LGBTQIA+#[}! nonsense [...]
Come on, do we need this here?
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#218I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…
Having lived in some of those scenes, the environment or the identity or political affinities that lead to the creation of those groups are only indirectly linked to the cultural aspects that emerge from it. There very much is specific music, specific visual art, written art, zines, comics, software (!) that emerge when people live off the mainstream. As for lgbtqia cultures even, with the lip embrace or sometimes slightly more heartfelt embrace by mainstream media, is far from being culturally present, let alone politically. Just tally up the ratios in the comments here…
A rainbow flag is not techno/house/zines/novels, advertising is not culture. Advertising is by definition the antithesis of culture, adopting cultural norms. Ultimately it will be hollow and opportunistic because that’s its mission. An ad showing a leatherbear is not culture, and I don’t think you will ever see a leather show on prime time, if at all. Yet a culture it is (and possibly a lifestyle, but one doesn’t imply the other).
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conservatism and traditional values can't be counter-culture since our society is based on them. It will never be counter-anything except progress.
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This in itself was the counterculture within conservatism. It used to be much more diverse before the goofball contingent took over. Uncle Phil on Fresh Prince was a conservative, and he would throw someone out of his house for this garbage. That was as recent as the 90s.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#220[flagged]
> vaccines are supposed to provide immunity (not "protection") This is, in fact, wrong. Vaccines can't give us immunity. "We’re Asking the Impossible of Vaccines" https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz... > Complete protection against infection has long been hailed as the holy grail of vaccination. It might simply be unachievable. > No infection means no disease, no death, and no transmission, t…
This is a bit of a mischaracterization of what he was trying to say I think. The immunizations we’re all used to like the TDAP, MMR, and Hep B are so effective that if you have the shot your immune system will react very well and prevent symptomatic and communicable disease. Yes some infections slip through the cracks for various circumstances (immune compromise, waning immunity, simple chance).
The seasonal flu vaccine I understand at least. Influenza is a difficult virus to target and regular antigenic shift/drift make effective vaccines really tough to make.
The covid vaccine doesn’t provide enough protection to prevent infection and communicable disease. It’s not great it’s not even good. I was infected with it right after my first pfizer shot. I’m 5 shots deep and most of my colleagues at work have been infected multiple times and they’re mostly 4 shots deep. Coronaviruses are difficult viruses to target for vaccines, they’re enveloped and mutate. Why are these particular vaccines which are pretty mediocre being pushed so hard? The mRNA strategy targeting them is intellectually interesting however not good enough. Maybe they should try a different route or just give it a God damn rest.