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Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

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Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#211

Post by xdennis »

notahacker wrote: post #87
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did you switch from hating masks to loving masks? What caused your switch? Why caused you to hate them before you loved them? Was it a conspiracy?

Let's make the exceptionally charitable assumption that you are asking this question in good faith... Nobody that listened to public health experts ever "hated" masks. But initially, they didn't rush out to buy masks because the advice was to prioritise isolating the infected, social distancing for everyone else and clean hands to avoid [overestimated risk of] contact transmission, and not to rely on masks to protect…

You're re-writing history. The existence of airborne diseases has been known for hundreds of years, and masks have been used for more than a hundred.

In Asia they were using masks from the start, just like they did with the original SARS.

But with this second SARS doctors/WHO were saying that surgical masks had no effect and that Asians don't know what they're doing.

Then, masks not only had no effect, they were bad for you.

Then, all of a sudden masks were good. Cloth masks were good too. And you had doctors showing you how to make masks out of t-shirts.

Then masks were so good you had to wear them by force.

Then cloth masks had no effect. Then surgical masks had no effect. Only N95 and above were good.

It was absolute roller coaster, and with every turn (excused with “the science has changed”) doctors were hammering a nail into the coffin of public acceptance of science.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#212

Post by Avamander »

akomtu wrote: post #206
Avamander wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's the weeds that sprawl when education is constantly underfunded, demonized and people's access to good education is constantly hindered. All while idiocies are given the same amount of platform as rigorous methods out of "need for a debate" when there was going to be none to begin with. It's not "dogma" to "sterilize" some fringe idiocies, just implying that is often pretty much helping that sewer just fester…

tl;dr "I know the truth. All objections are fringe idiocies. There is no need for debate. Just give me the mic, shut up and listen." I remember reading about how Lenin dealt with opposition. He never argued with them on public, as it could damage his image and undermine his dogma. Instead, he ferociously attacked the opponent himself: demonized him, called him names, and later got rid of him.

Now you're just projecting, I don't see where else you could've gotten that TL;DR from.

I've heard similar comparisons to dictators from flat-earthers, that tells me a lot. I get the impression you wish you'd be oppressed, demonized, instead of ridiculed. But the latter is all it deserves, a laugh in the face and the door shut.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#213

Post by passwordoops »

philjohn wrote: post #144
passwordoops wrote: post #28

There's a frightening crisis of trust in authority, and frankly those in authority are the only ones to blame. It's been brewing for decades. More recent causes of this decay: -mixed messaging on basics from NIH on COVID in the early days, including outright lies (remember when wearing masks was bad for you?) -> Elites are clueless -Mixed messaging from pretty much every global leader about the best approach to handl…

You fail to account for the rise in the (mostly) right wing grifters who make money from being contrarian.

And everyone who uses this argument fails to account for the fact that grifters are a symptom of the problem and only enabled by the loss of trust in the first place

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#214

Post by belltaco »

realjhol wrote: post #210
belltaco wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think anyone of any significance said the virus doesn't exist How about someone with a dedicated audience of 15 million mostly older folks, and the recipient of the highest civilian honor in the US, on his highly popular radio show? >Rush Limbaugh: Folks, this coronavirus thing, I want to try to put this in perspective for you. It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring…

I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh or really know anything about him, but it's quite true to say that the establishment power was able to use the pandemic to great advantage against Trump. Mail-in voting has created completely new opportunities for Democrats to collect votes from its various client groups, permanently changing the face of voting in America. As for the common cold... well its more akin to the common cold…

Trump is part of the establishment power. That's why he did absolutely nothing against it while in power. Just look all the elites he appointed to power. Just a few of them https://i.redd.it/niv0ma19hdx21.jpg

His labor secretary was literally the prosecutor who gave Epstein a sweetheart deal.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#215

Post by eesmith »

ominous wrote: post #170
eesmith wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That summary is so high-level and abstract as to be useless. At that level, we face coercion all the time: a traffic light is a form of coercion backed by the threat of state violence. Does fighting back against that coercion explain why people run red lights? Moreover, if it's the expected human response, what explains the 2% difference between now and the 2019-2020 school year? Do more people now think of themselve…

Do you agree with every single traffic light in every single circunstance (place, and your timing)? Moreover, do you agree with every future traffic light that will ever be placed?

My disagreements with a traffic light placement so far have not been based on a don't-tread-on-me sense of The Man treading on my free will.

For example, I strongly prefer a modern roundabout for many of the places where the US uses a stop sign or traffic light. But my argument is made on increased safety and improved traffic flow.

I once accidentally ran a red light because I got confused about which traffic light was for my lane.

My father once deliberately ran a red light. After waiting for 5 minutes in the middle of the night. Because the detector didn't sense his motorcycle. A cop ticketed him. My father went to court and the judge ruled that what my father did was reasonable.

So while I'm certain that someone, somewhere ran a red light because of moral outrage over repressive government, that's not main reason people run a red light.

Just like this linked-to article seems to describe that the drop in routine vaccinations does not seem primarily due to increased vaccine hesitance due to the covid pandemic, even though certainly that is a reason for a few people.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#216

Post by Izkata »

Avamander wrote: post #94
blumomo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in 2023 people still believe that C19 mRNA prevents infecting others? This myth has long been classified as wrong (unlike advertised in the beginning of its rollout)

It's just that the nuance is often ignored in the initial saying. Why do people try to debunk something out of a game of telephone instead on restoring the original information. Point has always been that people who are less ill, less severely ill, for a shorter duration, with fewer or no symptoms, have lower chances of infecting others. The urge to simplify is great but it causes these weird discussions like "does t…

> Point has always been that people who are less ill, less severely ill, for a shorter duration, with fewer or no symptoms, have lower chances of infecting others.

The most recent research on the types of antibodies the vaccines create vs natural infection are showing the opposite: it causes our bodies to treat the virus more like an allergy, reducing the symptoms while clearing the infection much slower. This gives more chance to infect others, not less.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#217

Post by realjhol »

realjhol wrote: post #46
_Microft wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens if people lack self-reflection. If they had asked themselves if there is any chance that they could possibly know better than someone who's working on a topic all the time, the answer would have been a resounding no, no matter the topic in question.

Actually yes, sometimes an outsider opinion can be the correct one... that is the very essence of scientific enquiry - to ask questions. Who am I? Some rando on the Internet, but I correctly assessed that the vaccines wouldn't prevent transmission, carried a non-zero risk of side effects - sometimes extremely serious, that natural immunity would provide far greater protection, that vaccination was unnecessary for chi…

Turns out that just winning an election doesn't help you enact a lasting win against the swamp, when 95% of the people qualified to serve in your cabinet are DC swamp creatures or are at least adjacent to the swamp

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#218

Post by Izkata »

yucky wrote: post #154
blumomo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in 2023 people still believe that C19 mRNA prevents infecting others? This myth has long been classified as wrong (unlike advertised in the beginning of its rollout)

> Why in 2023 people still believe that C19 mRNA prevents infecting others? Because the Director of the CDC and the President of the United States have both at several times made this claim publicly. The fact that we now know they were lying is why we're in this situation to begin with.

> The fact that we now know

Some of us knew they were lying from the start and had a very frustrating few years: Pfizer made no claims about infection/transmission, just symptoms, because they never tested for infection/transmission. That claim popped up out of nowhere a few months after the vaccines were available.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#219

Post by Izkata »

notahacker wrote: post #87
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did you switch from hating masks to loving masks? What caused your switch? Why caused you to hate them before you loved them? Was it a conspiracy?

Let's make the exceptionally charitable assumption that you are asking this question in good faith... Nobody that listened to public health experts ever "hated" masks. But initially, they didn't rush out to buy masks because the advice was to prioritise isolating the infected, social distancing for everyone else and clean hands to avoid [overestimated risk of] contact transmission, and not to rely on masks to protect…

> The recommendation changed (pretty quickly, based on stronger evidence of aerosol transmission and

This is not only backwards, it is hilariously so: Aerosol transmission was only partially accepted a year or more after the mask push. People still resist it even now. The whole reason masks were supposed to work was the assumption that it was entirely droplet transmission.

The people who believed it was aerosol spread that first year were the ones against masking, because the virus is too small to be stopped by cloth masks.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#220

Post by hutzlibu »

realjhol wrote: post #210
belltaco wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think anyone of any significance said the virus doesn't exist How about someone with a dedicated audience of 15 million mostly older folks, and the recipient of the highest civilian honor in the US, on his highly popular radio show? >Rush Limbaugh: Folks, this coronavirus thing, I want to try to put this in perspective for you. It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring…

I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh or really know anything about him, but it's quite true to say that the establishment power was able to use the pandemic to great advantage against Trump. Mail-in voting has created completely new opportunities for Democrats to collect votes from its various client groups, permanently changing the face of voting in America. As for the common cold... well its more akin to the common cold…

"that the establishment power was able to use the pandemic to great advantage against Trump"

Trump was very great at using the pandemic against himself, by saying stuff like, maybe drinking desinfection helps.

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