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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#211

Post by dbsights »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #75
hitpointdrew wrote: post #4

Seems like this should have been a requirement before any emergency use authorization, and certainly before any mandates. The fact that this research is just now being done ought to be enough to immediately revoke the FDA emergency use authorizations and pull the product from the shelves. The covid vaccines have been a complete and utter disaster at every level. The erosion of trust in the institutions that are suppo…

Isn't he risk of myocarditis actually higher if you get infected with covid compared with getting a covid vaccine? https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-...

> Associations were stronger in men younger than 40 years for all vaccines. In men younger than 40 years old, the number of excess myocarditis events per million people was higher after a second dose of mRNA-1273 than after a positive SARS-CoV-2 test (97 [95% CI, 91–99] versus 16 [95% CI, 12–18]).

> The risk of vaccine-associated myocarditis is consistently higher in younger men, particularly after a second dose of mRNA-1273, where the number of additional events during 28 days was estimated to be 97 per million people exposed. An important consideration for this group is that the risk of myocarditis after a second dose of mRNA-1273 was higher than the risk after infection.

That's from the study you linked; for the group most at risk of vaccine myocarditis, the vaccine was associated with a higher risk than the virus. In this study, this was true for Moderna, with Pfizer being about equivalent risk to the virus (albeit without considering that the risk of infection remains after vaccination). However, there have been other studies that found this to be true for all mrna vaccines.

So to answer your question, its technically true, but only if you dilute the at-risk group by including the entire population.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#212

Post by justsee »

busymom0 wrote: post #108
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting, the Florida Surgeon General's opinion was lambasted in the mainstream media as him embracing conspiracy theories (and there is some interesting added context there as to why they believe so). Which... maybe two things are true at once. Perhaps he was - but also, perhaps his stance is not that radical. Radical compared to most Surgeon Generals in the United States; but on an international level? https://…

Even the neighbouring country Canada stopped giving Moderna to people under 30 a year ago in September 2021. The CDC on the other hand is still continuing on. Clearly something is wrong in the US.

In Australia it appears they're changing public messaging on vaccination for "One of the nation’s top advisers on vaccination says it is unlikely young people under 30 will be approved for fourth doses, as Australia turns its attention to antiviral access to tackle yet another Omicron wave."

"Former ATAGI co-chair and current member Professor Allen Cheng said the increased risk of myocarditis and the lack of notable benefit from additional boosters meant it was likely the recommended vaccine schedule for younger people would remain as is. Some are approaching a year since their booster shot."

[1] https://www.smh.com.au/national/why-you-won-t-get-another-co...

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#213

Post by ivraatiems »

linuxftw wrote: post #187
ivraatiems wrote: post #65

I would just like us all to stop pretending that any of one's fear of COVID or skepticism of vaccines or distrust of whoever or whatever is about rational calculated risks. It's about how we feel, so let's talk about that. Look, everyone is scared of doing something until they're scared of not doing it. Everyone distrusts government until they trust it, and distrusts pharma until they trust it. Some people will wear…

So, people losing their jobs for not taking an experimental medical product was just a persuasion game? What?

Yes, "do this or you're fired" is a coercive tactic. People who are pro-vaccine want everyone to get the vaccine. They believe it is a matter of life or death (frankly, I agree with them, but I am trying to present this neutrally). So that level of coercion, "fear losing your job if you don't do this" is exactly what I'm talking about.

If people could be persuaded to do things that are in their interest via rational discourse, and evidence favored vaccines, it wouldn't be necessary to do that kind of coercion. (Nor would it be necessary to so strenuously resist getting them, you'd just say "here is the evidence I don't need to get this," and everyone would accept it and let you live your life.) That's my whole point.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#215

Post by enragedcacti »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #103
bluGill wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we have to account for the much reduced risk of that though. sure it can, but relative risk is important. Covid when vaccinated is far more likely to kill you than all possible combinations of the vaccine and whatever else.

> Then we have to account for the much reduced risk of that though I fail to see any evidence of "much reduced risk". We know before vaccinations existed some people died, some people were a-symptomatic. After mass vaccination campaigns, same results. Have the deaths gone down? Sure, but there are obvious factors, outside of vaccination, that are certainly contributing to that, if not wholly responsible for it. We kn…

> I fail to see any evidence of "much reduced risk".

If you just do a basic per-capita analysis the reduced risk of death is in the range of 5-16x depending on age group and vaccinated or vaccinated+boosted. There are obviously confounding variables (do vaccinated people behave differently? are healthier people the ones getting the vaccines?) but I would argue that those numbers are a pretty big W for vaccines as far as risk reduction goes.

And of course that is just deaths. You could certainly look at numbers for severity of infection or long-covid outcomes to further measure the efficacy of the vaccines.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-co...

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#216

Post by ivraatiems »

linuxftw wrote: post #208
jzb wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Can we just admit this isn't about logic or statistics, and never was? It was always a persuasion game either way." Kind of? The fact is that we've turned into a society where we can't even be unified in trying to prevent disease. If "the left" is for vaccines, masking, social distancing, etc. then "the right" has to immediately be against it. I don't recall any of my friends or family needing persuasion at all. The…

> The fact is that we've turned into a society where we can't even be unified in trying to prevent disease The vaccines weren't trialed and aren't approved to prevent the spread of the disease....so? I don't know about you, but I actually read the FDA's initial report on the Pfizer trials, and it was complete nonsense. They didn't even test each participant for covid, only some participants, with no clear reasoning a…

> gene therapy drugs

The use of this term to describe an mRNA vaccine suggests you do not understand how these vaccines work whatsoever. I am not surprised you didn't understand the FDA's report given that you don't understand how the vaccines work at all.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#217

Post by ivraatiems »

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #203
jzb wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Can we just admit this isn't about logic or statistics, and never was? It was always a persuasion game either way." Kind of? The fact is that we've turned into a society where we can't even be unified in trying to prevent disease. If "the left" is for vaccines, masking, social distancing, etc. then "the right" has to immediately be against it. I don't recall any of my friends or family needing persuasion at all. The…

I'm against social distancing because there is no scientific basis or justification for it. Scientists just went on TV and talked about an idea they pulled out from their behinds. I guess that makes me on the right for not believing everything that was presented to me on television, unlike my family, who are on the left.

If "stay away from people who might be sick" is an idea you think scientists made up just now, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's not that big a stretch to "anyone could be sick because we don't know how this disease works yet, so stay away from everyone."

Not advocating for social distancing as a policy at this point in time, just saying, it made a lot of sense from a risk-prevention perspective at the time.

But again, this is my point. It's trivially easy for me to provide a logical explanation for why social distancing was a sensible tactic. You are (probably) not going to be persuaded. You (probably) like your evidence because it matches how you feel, and I like mine because it matches how I feel.

To be clear, I don't mean this in an aggressive way - I don't think it is bad that you don't agree with me on this in some kind of a moral way, at this point. I just don't think any sort of evidence-based argumentation will bridge the gap between us.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#218

Post by hitpointdrew »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #27
sfusato wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that still apply to someone vaccinated though? "... COVID can still kill me, or give me one of a number of other long-term health issues"

> Doesn't that still apply to someone vaccinated though? Not at close to the same rate, no. "can" would be a technically true but entirely misleading word there, as the topic of conversation is the risk ratio. "1 in 10 chance" things can happen. "1 in a million chance" things can happen, also. But these two "can" usages are not the same. You should know this. You should not be playing word games. Do you think, falsel…

>Not at close to the same rate, no.

That is highly debatable, especially with the current (weaker) strains. Unless you have comorbidities or are otherwise in a high-risk category the chance the Covid will kill you is near 0.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#219

Post by gjsman-1000 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #188
vanattab wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is still the case but as of Nov 21 the feds had paid zero covid cicp claims. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrze...

You wouldn't file a CICP claim for a bout of myocarditis in which "we have not seen indications of lasting damage". That's not what it's for.

Well... according to CICP themselves, as of October 1st 2022, they have only paid out 6 claims for COVID-9 vaccines - ever. Which, even by this NBC News article standard, is low. However, 5 of them were for myocarditis, 1 for anaphylaxis.

https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-data

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#220

Post by nomel »

leetrout wrote: post #200
alerighi wrote: post #165

I think that all this COVID stuff was everything opposite than using science, starting from the people, including government, taking of "trusting science". Science is not a religion, and we don't have to believe in it. Instead we need to be critic, conduct experiments, evaluate our thesis, put everything into discussion. Something we didn't, because you are a fool if you have doubts about vaccines, if you talk about…

> I had serious side effects, I was basically not feeling well for a week Would you care to elaborate? I had really bad brain fog.

Not him, but I had arm pain for over a year, under the injection, along with extreme weakness in a particular muscle/motion, from the first shot. I couldn’t sleep on that side at all, and could barely sleep on the other. It eventually went away, but I was terrified it was permanent.

I did not get the boosters. I’ve had people say I’m anti-vax, from this.

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