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My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

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Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#211

Post by GekkePrutser »

> Author Frank White first coined the term in 1987: “There are no borders or boundaries on our planet except those that we create in our minds or through human behaviors. All the ideas and concepts that divide us when we are on the surface begin to fade from orbit and the moon. The result is a shift in worldview, and in identity.”

This alone is already a really good reason to keep going into space IMO. Even though Shatner says it depressed him, this kind of awareness is really what we need as a species. It might be depressing but that might cause us to finally actually do something about the problems we're causing.

Of course the environmental impact of sending even a token percentage on a trip to space would make our problems a lot worse so it's not going to happen...

By the way Shatner keeps calling it "Orbit" but that is not what he was in. I'm surprised this was not explained to him.

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#212

Post by ajsnigrutin »

ethanbond wrote: post #209
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which individuals are those? Can you name them? All the mainstream media said iraq has WMDs... it was basically on every european and american tv channel in preparation for the war. Once before that, we heard that iraqi soldiers killed babies... that was a "fun" one too... Even tony blair admited it (the WMDs) was a lie: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-ton... The same media also reported of…

Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe. This is not an addressable concern to be honest. It’s like complaining about “the elites.” Just needs to be more specific. Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes? Sure, people lie, but then that obviously prompts the question of why haven’t all the o…

I'm saying that mainstream media has an agenda and is showing us propaganda.

The mainstream media told us about dead babies in iraq, told us about WMDs and told us about nazis in ukraine ( https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg ). Then the war started, and suddenly nazis are a conspiracy theory.

It's a war, shit happens, media focuses on every dead civilian who died because of russians, and ignores all the dead civilians killed by american bombs, even at weddings in countries US is not even at war with, and it ignores all the dead civilians killed by ukranians, and it ignores all the dead civilians killed by israelis, etc.

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#213

Post by llamaimperative »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #212
ethanbond wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe. This is not an addressable concern to be honest. It’s like complaining about “the elites.” Just needs to be more specific. Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes? Sure, people lie, but then that obviously prompts the question of why haven’t all the o…

I'm saying that mainstream media has an agenda and is showing us propaganda. The mainstream media told us about dead babies in iraq, told us about WMDs and told us about nazis in ukraine ( https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg ). Then the war started, and suddenly nazis are a conspiracy theory. It's a war, shit happens, media focuses on every dead civilian who died because of russians, and ignores all the dead civilians ki…

No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe. That doesn’t mean Nazis are okay, nor does it mean all of those countries which have those elements are illegitimate and no longer have a right to self-defense.

This point is never raised as an effort to get said Nazis out of combat/prevalence (in which case, sure, let’s do it). It’s just used to suggest we shouldn’t be supporting a democratic ally who got invaded by an autocratic warlord with imperial motives.

There was a great article a few years ago about the huge Neo-Nazi element in the German military. It’s a huge problem. It’s bad. Does this mean we need to allow Russia to roll tanks into Berlin and put up a wall again? That’s why you’re getting dismissed so readily that you think it’s because people believe it’s a “conspiracy theory.” It’s a completely meaningless point. It has no bearing on the situation whatsoever.

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#214

Post by unity1001 »

llamaimperative wrote: post #213
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that mainstream media has an agenda and is showing us propaganda. The mainstream media told us about dead babies in iraq, told us about WMDs and told us about nazis in ukraine ( https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg ). Then the war started, and suddenly nazis are a conspiracy theory. It's a war, shit happens, media focuses on every dead civilian who died because of russians, and ignores all the dead civilians ki…

No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe. That doesn’t mean Nazis are okay, nor does it mean all of those countries which have those elements are illegitimate and no longer have a right to self-defense. This point is never raised as an effort to get said Nazis out of combat/prevalence (in wh…

> No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe

These are not 'Neonazi elements'. They are actual Nazi brigades comprised of actual nazis who know their theory, who think that they are ubermensch and everyone else either should be enslaved or killed. They are not your average skinhead occasionally attacking immigrants.

And yeah, the media is now past saying that Nazis are a conspiracy theory - that was until a few months ago. Because the Nazis were unrepentant in their Nazism, now the media is whitewashing them.

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#215

Post by unity1001 »

ethanbond wrote: post #210
unity1001 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which individuals are those? Can you name them? Entire mainstream corporate media, foremost Angloamerican, current US State Dept., CIA, other 3-letter agency top officials, who were the mid-level foot soldiers implementing the lies, the ex top officials of those agencies, who are retired and who are now called 'the intelligence community' now, making 6 figures while working in private think tanks who manufacture an…

Al Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2022/6/21/inside-ukra... Buenos Aires Times: https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/amp/world/tougher-russia-san... India at the UN condemned “war crimes in Bucha,” which they stopped short of accusing their strategic partner of, but obviously it wasn’t Ukrainian armed forces walking through Bucha executing civilians, right? Seems odd to lament the lack of truly free media…

Similar news were made, and similar condemnations were issued at the UN for a lot of other 'war crimes' that turned out to be nonexistent.

> then believe even half a word out of Russia’s mouth.

That's your own personal bias - 'either/or'. There are many other sources than 'Russia'. The world is not bipolar like in Anglosphere.

> Also FYI, “intelligence community” does not refer to retired government people on the media circuit

No. 'The intelligence community' as a term is used to include the retired personas now working in think tanks, in order to give them authority. Those people's papers from think tanks cant be referenced or cited as belonging to actual intelligence agencies after they retired. But if you say 'intelligence community', you can cite them all you want...

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#216

Post by unity1001 »

ethanbond wrote: post #209
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which individuals are those? Can you name them? All the mainstream media said iraq has WMDs... it was basically on every european and american tv channel in preparation for the war. Once before that, we heard that iraqi soldiers killed babies... that was a "fun" one too... Even tony blair admited it (the WMDs) was a lie: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-ton... The same media also reported of…

Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe. This is not an addressable concern to be honest. It’s like complaining about “the elites.” Just needs to be more specific. Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes? Sure, people lie, but then that obviously prompts the question of why haven’t all the o…

> Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe

That 'spooky' mainstream media lied about babies in incubators in Iraq, then nonexistent WMDs, then about freedom-loving Libyan rebels, then freedom-loving Syrian rebels, and now they are telling other things in the latest foreign policy project.

Why the hell are you people even giving them any credibility, leaving aside actually believing them? Where does the buck stop?

The corporate media not lying about matters that do not touch the economy, military or the foreign policy does NOT make them trustworthy in other matters.

> why haven’t all the other people who have been discussing Russian crimes

She was not fired for 'discussing'. She was fired for an outrageous lie that she produced as the person responsible for the official position of the government.

> Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes?

Amazing how you contort actual evidence of lying by an administration from the highest levels to a proof of it being honest.

Mental gymnastics. Apparently that's what enables you people to believe your establishments.

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#217

Post by shepherdjerred »

osigurdson wrote: post #85
dao- wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is legitimate as well, yet you've completely missed the point.

Imagine that you are in Bezos situation, you have 20 people super excited about what was just achieved (including yourself). You have one person that is reacting in a deeply philosophical way. Everyone knows that you are the leader and you set the tone. Do you want to change the tone at that moment to a deeply philosophical (and slightly non-positive) one? Being the leader is not as easy as many think. I suspect the…

> Everyone knows that you are the leader and you set the tone. Do you want to change the tone at that moment to a deeply philosophical (and slightly non-positive) one? Being the leader is not as easy as many think.

This reflects on Bezos and the company that he kept -- either they are too shallow to understand the depth of what they had done, or too weak to make the uncomfortable choice of discussing it.

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#218

Post by wizofaus »

towaway15463 wrote: post #206
therealdrag0 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we domesticate the majority of the planet nothing substantial will evolve without us controlling it. We have replaced a large percentage of wild organic biomass with us and our pets and cattle and farms.

We’re still very far off from that and trending away from using more land in developed countries.

Really? "According to the a 2011 biomass census compiled by Vaclav Smil, human activity over the last 5,000 years has reduced total global biomass by about 50 percent". http://vaclavsmil.com/wp-content/uploads/PDR37-4.Smil_.pgs61...

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#219

Post by tptacek »

vlunkr wrote: post #106
bkirkby wrote: post #70

Fwiw I had something akin to the overview effect when I attended a full solar eclipse. I thought I was prepared. I had read up on what to expect because I wanted to make the most of the experience for the kids. I wanted to make sure we observed the "shadow bands" (snake like shadows traversing across single colored surfaces that aren't always visible). Everything did proceed as I expected (including the shadow bands)…

Reminds me of the lyrics to “do you realize” by the flaming lips: https://genius.com/The-flaming-lips-do-you-realize-lyrics

Or, for that matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKP0aoXaQJo

Re: My Trip to Space Filled Me with Overwhelming Sadness

#220

Post by wizofaus »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #143
seydor wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also technically an impossibility, since evolution would not be possible without extinction

That's technically wrong. Evolution is possible via expansion into new biomes, or by being able to use/exploit as-yet unmetabolized compounds, or through shifting inter-species relationships (e.g. entering (or leaving) symbiosis).

You could more generously interpret the comment as meaning "evolution would never have got us to where we are now - i.e. the existence of humanity - without there being substantial amounts of extinction along the way", which is harder to argue with. The real question is whether there's a bright future for life on earth without our own species going extinct first, or even without being replaced by a species with a comparable level of cognitive ability and self-awareness (but hopefully better ability to avoid have such a devastating impact on so many other species).
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