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Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

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Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#211

Post by jorvi »

altairprime wrote: post #159
spideymans wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s Activation Lock lead to a substantial drop in smartphone theft worldwide. That’s something worthy of consideration. Apple must not re-incentivize phone theft to harvest parts. https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-lea...

It also considerably reduces the ability of nation-state attackers to replace parts with modified hardware without your knowledge, as Apple can detect and terminate misuse of the tool that creates new cryptographic signing keys for the pairing of phone and part. We saw signed-pairing appear with the Touch ID system in response to Apple learning of nation-state attacks on the iPhone that used hardware modifications. T…

> To date, no HN discussion of this crypto-pairing of the phone to its parts has revealed an alternative solution that would be effective at Apple’s scale for preventing phones from being hacked by a parts swap while also allowing any part to be swapped in

Random-ass repair shops are not going to expend the effort of putting in fake parts to hack you to.. hack a couple of thousand dollars off of your account and then get caught due to it easily being traceable to the repair shop?

The only people who need protection from hardware-swap hacks are people like journalists. And if you are one, you shouldn’t be giving people physical access to your device regardless.

Here is a simple solution: give the normal user (after a passcode unlock) a pop-up: ‘your X has been replaced. Do you wish to authorize this new part for use with your iPhone?’.

Make it so that if your phone is set to the new Lockdown mode, you cannot authorize any new parts.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#212

Post by kccqzy »

sp332 wrote: post #139
Melatonic wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people surely are not going to use it so how is it going to be a loss? Do people actually break their iphones every year?

Apple Care only costs $200 per phone. One person replacing a $1,000 phone wipes out five people's worth of revenue.

You can even pay it monthly, which probably costs $9.99 per month. Anecdote: I was on my seventh monthly payment when I accidentally smashed unassembled IKEA furniture on my phone at an IKEA store and broke the entire back glass and cameras. The technician noticed small cracks on the screen too that didn't actually bother me, but bothered him enough to swap the entire device.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#213

Post by mechanical_bear »

mrtksn wrote: post #206
jorvi wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would anyone try to sell me a device by talking about how easy it is to repair it? I guess Framework laptops must have a hidden compartment full of gold, because they keep selling like hotcakes.

How many millions of laptops they have sold so far? Are they selling over 10 million a year thanks to the superb repairability? I like Framework, it's nice concept and if I had a few thousand dollars expandable money I would definitely buy one to fiddle with.

Not yet, but they are still scaling. Is that your measure of success? 10 million units?

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#214

Post by alana314 »

layer8 wrote: post #93
anonymouse008 wrote: post #63

Apple Care + is going to become an insane profit center and an absolute no brainer when purchasing a new Apple device. This puts Apple’s recent “no limit to accidental repairs” policy update in perspective. When I saw that I said, “well I guess this is how they are going to use their cash reserves, because no way will this be net profitable” To boot, I always wondered why it was so cheap - $200 for AC+ then $29 per s…

So far, not buying AC+ has had better amortized cost for me.

Same, I use a case and do my own repairs when stuff breaks

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#215

Post by baybal2 »

Veliladon wrote: post #33
millzlane wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes it easier for my technicians when customers lie by omission when they have had their device repaired someplace else and they bring it back to us for repair. It's not until we get into the repair and find out someone has stripped screws that can't be removed without extraction tools and replaced LSI's. It's also nice for consumers who get their devices stolen strictly for parts. Preventing someone from basi…

The other thing is that Apple is trying to make things harder for people with large amounts of resources (think nation states) to exfiltrate data by using pwned components. Like when you take it into a repair shop, how do you know that the replacement part isn't compromised? If I was replacing the front facing FaceID complex I sure as hell would want verifiable Apple gear and it to be paired to the phone. Why would I…

> The other thing is that Apple is trying to make things harder for people with large amounts of resources (think nation states) to exfiltrate data by using pwned components.

Reflashing serial numbers of common i2c chips is routine, and not "harder."

It basically only deters self-taught repair shop owners, without electronics background.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#216

Post by selykg »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #109
selykg wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. You can still buy replacement parts from Apple as part of the repair program. This would, in theory, make repairing the iPhone 14 a lot easier than it has been in the past. No, this still doesn't mean you can go get the cheapest replacement option you can on Alibaba but the repair is STILL easier, even if you still have to buy from Apple. For certain replacement parts I can see this being important, like any…

>For certain replacement parts I can see this being important, like anything involved in Face ID or Touch ID. Those are secure elements. The back glass is not a secure element. That's just vendor lock-in malice for the sake of profiteering. Edit: Since I can reply to your comments below, your argument fails flat because: 1) SW lock-outs also apply to genuine apple parts, not just aftermarket ones 2) If the user's abi…

I wasn't arguing that the back glass was a secure element. I said it makes sense for certain replacement parts and then gave examples of those surrounding Face ID and Touch ID.

I would agree with you that the back glass is not one of those things. But as another person said, it is nice to know that they're official Apple products as that does matter to some people.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#217

Post by neilalexander »

candiddevmike wrote: post #160
buildbot wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exactly. To have a more secure device this is one of the trade offs. Can you imagine the articles if you could swap out faceID systems to unlock an encrypted iphone?

AFAIK face ID generates a key used to decrypt the data. Swapping the system wouldn't let you unlock it, unless it was performing a MitM against the user of the phone. Honestly most of the TPM and trusted enclave stuff Apple does is mostly to prevent that kind of MitM situation. For most users, I don't see it as a threat to worry about.

It’s even more impressive than that — the infrared dot pattern of every Face ID sensor is also physically unique. You can’t swap out Face ID sensors and keep the same enrolment data as a result because the replacement sensor will produce a slightly different pattern.

[1] https://www.apple.com/business-docs/FaceID_Security_Guide.pd...

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#218

Post by mrtksn »

mechanical_bear wrote: post #213
mrtksn wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many millions of laptops they have sold so far? Are they selling over 10 million a year thanks to the superb repairability? I like Framework, it's nice concept and if I had a few thousand dollars expandable money I would definitely buy one to fiddle with.

Not yet, but they are still scaling. Is that your measure of success? 10 million units?

Success on what? If I measure repairability success would look like Framework laptops, if I measure mainstream adoption success would look like Apple/Dell/Samsung, if I measure for longevity and versatility success would look like Apple/Thinkpad, if I measure for refined design success would look like Apple.

There are many ways to be successful.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#219

Post by greyhair »

From the text of the article:

"Every Android phone opens from the back."

I have replaced screens an a couple different models of Motorola phones, and the screens popped off the front. Just looking at my Pixel 5a, the screen clearly pops off the front.

This wouldn't bother me as much, except it is on the ifixit web site, which posts videos on screens repairs, that clearly show any number of Android phones being opened from the front.

Disappointing mistake, coming from ifixit.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#220

Post by joshmanders »

hot_gril wrote: post #171
anonymouse008 wrote: post #63

Apple Care + is going to become an insane profit center and an absolute no brainer when purchasing a new Apple device. This puts Apple’s recent “no limit to accidental repairs” policy update in perspective. When I saw that I said, “well I guess this is how they are going to use their cash reserves, because no way will this be net profitable” To boot, I always wondered why it was so cheap - $200 for AC+ then $29 per s…

$200 per year plus $30 per repair is still a lot. How often do you smash your phone? Generally insurance is never positive-EV for the buyer unless peace of mind is considered, and to that I say, it's cheaper to find peace with the risk of breaking your phone.

> How often do you smash your phone?

So little that the 1 time it could happen in the 2 years of AppleCare makes it pay for itself.

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