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A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

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Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#211

Post by kiawe_fire »

znpy wrote: post #79

«Turns out that maybe we shouldn't be letting AI handle moderation.» It's always the same... People speak up and things suddenly are a problem ("turns out that...") only when the bad thing has happened to them. If there's any actual point that we should take home is that bad consequences are going to happen, and we'd all better listen up when other people warn us about these things before it's too late. AI moderation…

In my circle of friends and family, I’ve been warning them every time I hear of someone unjustly banned somewhere that:

(a) big tech has too much power (b) you should probably not rely too much on Facebook or Twitter for photos, groups, etc

Without fail, I’m “just delusional” and “if someone was banned, it’s because they did something to deserve it”, _until_ they themselves get banned for something.

The most frustrating part - one friend of mine who was banned for something he posted, appealed and was reinstated. When he was banned, “big tech has too much power”, but since _his_ appeal was successful, he’s already back to “anyone who’s banned deserved it”.

I have yet to be banned myself for anything (a fact that my critics like to use as “proof”), but i recognize that if it can happen to someone posting a video game clip, it can happen to me.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#212

Post by emn13 »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #127
jsnell wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Forcing users to acknowledge their sins on a platform, when none are committed, is an issue. It reminds me of struggle sessions. I will use an extreme case (unrealistic) to prove the point: If you were forced, every day, to say 'XXXXXX cereal company is the best in the world, and they are greeeat.' before you were allowed to eat your toast, you will eventually start to believe this. Ok, maybe not you - but humanity i…

Perhaps this is an unconstructive aside, but it's a pet peeve of mine how often we present this kind of thought experiments in a way that pretends it's just the unwashed masses that are vulnerable to whatever manipulation is being discussed.

I really doubt it. I'd rather we internalize that you and me are almost certainly also vulnerable to serious misjudgements when exposed to similar situations.

Best case: you're right, and strong-willed indivuduals exist and are immune. But worst case we're all worshiping Cthulhu without even realizing it, just because we were too proud to practice good informational hygiene.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#213

Post by edanm »

lapcat wrote: post #135
ISL wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that Twitter could possibly survive as a company without large amounts of automated moderation?

No. And that's why Twitter should not exist as a company. If they were legally required to have human moderation, they would go out of business. And IMO the world would be better off.

I think if the phone companies can't monitor every conversation to make sure no one is planning a crime, they're clearly not actually able to scale in a correct manner and therefore we shouldn't have phones.

(Obviously a different situation, but by what principle is it different?)

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#214

Post by jwolfe »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #155
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I think you got into the area that I am troubled by. I will state two things I consider to be true that are mutually exclusive: * Online spaces (facebook, twitter, etc), when they reach a certain level, are de-facto public spaces and excluding people from it by big tech is harmful to humanity. * Online spaces owned by a private corporation is for their benefit, not humanities, and forcing them to keep others on…

The law deals with this all the time, but it becomes complex when you cross jurisdiction boundaries. If a corporation wants to operate a public space, like a common area within a company town, you generally have to follow the law on what speech is allowed in that space. If your square is in the US, you have to allow Nazis to protest, but if it's in Germany, you probably have a duty to call the police on the Nazis to…

> If a corporation wants to operate a public space, like a square with a fountain outside an office building, you generally have to follow the law on what speech is allowed in that space. If your square is in the US, you have to allow Nazis to protest, but if it's in Germany, you probably have a duty to call the police on the Nazis to stop them.

This is not correct. [0]

> Private property owners can set rules for speech on their property. The government may not restrict your speech if it is taking place on your own property or with the consent of the property owner.

[0] https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#215

Post by b112 »

ratww wrote: post #77
booleandilemma wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I don't buy the public square argument. The online world is a cesspool filled with bots and crazy people. I don't need to voice my opinion on Twitter, nor is Twitter a place I need to be . What matters is how we relate to the people around us, in our communities. Your neighbor isn't a bot, the barista at the coffee shop isn't a russian troll. We need to stop taking the "online world" so seriously and connect with…

The real world is also a cesspool filled with crazy people and people trying to abuse the system (something analogous to bots). Also spammers and harassers. The difference is that on the real world public squares there’s no amplification effect that we have on those platforms, save for some very closely watched exceptions (politicians, celebrities). Also very little anonymity.

The real world is also a cesspool filled with crazy people and people trying to abuse the system (something analogous to bots

No, the real world is an excellent place, filled with great people everywhere.

There is no comparison with the twitter/facebook mob, where 99,99% of people strive for your attention, for monetary gain.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#216

Post by bandyaboot »

powerhour wrote: post #197
gruez wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can basically advocate for genocide, completely unhindered, by calling entire classes of people "degenerate" (literal Nazi rhetoric), Are you sure you're not reading too much into it? Without context it's really hard to tell whether a use of "degenerate" literally means you want to genocide some group.

When folks call trans people "degenerate", as many are wont to do on reddit (and as reddit is well known for), it's probably safe to assume they're not just trying to be playful.

Yes, but there’s a Grand Canyon sized gap between being “playful” and calling for literal wholesale murder. I think there’s room somewhere in there for an interpretation like “that person is a super hateful asshole”.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#217

Post by SSLy »

starkd wrote: post #165
safety1st wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a fun story. I see that this post is from fanbyte.com. Existing got me banned from fanbyte.com and all of the websites they own. Specifically, existing in a particular country. Not an exotic or unusual one on an embargo list or something -- just some country that Fanbyte felt they weren't earning enough profit from. They banned the entire populations of about ten countries from their entire network of websites…

But could that be Fanbyte's way of dealing with a specific country's laws? Perhaps they don't have the manpower and those countries are small enough that the only cost effective option is to just not operate in those countries.

Somehow it's only Fanbyte that have this problem with people in Turkey / Serbia etc. Why has no other publisher went to such measures?

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#218

Post by masswerk »

We are doomed.

Well, more seriously speaking, there's a serious issue behind these anecdotes: with things like Content ID and automated moderation, I see no alternative to any platforms for user generated content with even the slightest of commercial interests gradually transitioning towards alternative outlets for corporate media.

The problem being, I do not see an alternative.

Clearly, there are vital economic incentives for these platforms to pacify those first, who are both the biggest threat to them (in terms of lawsuits) and the sole or major source of income. Clearly, big platforms like these can't be viably worked without any amount of moderation (as there are bad actors out there) and realistically also without at least some oversight of the IP situation. (The latter may change eventually, as soon as there is corporate IP exclusively on these platforms. Direct and indirect content filtering as by recommendation systems will eventually ensure this, with more and more professionalized user channels becoming alternative media corporations themselves.) Clearly, more conventional measures, like community efforts (or sanctioning by social convention), won't do as the world has become too divided for this and there is no guarantee that social norms will always conclude with the vital economic interests of the platform. For the big platforms, there seems to be no way around automation (which is also enforced by the EU), but this is also clearly dysfunctional.

So, how do we get out of this mess? (Any proposals are welcome.)

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#219

Post by treesprite82 »

Kukumber wrote: post #17

What i find surprising is people willing to trust a random person saying they got banned without elements to prove it I find this very suspicious, why not show what twitter told you? that seems to be the first thing someone would share when they complain about getting banned I'll go with "trying to surf on the Stray hype to get clicks" until proper more details are shared

The full video that supposedly causes the auto-ban is in the article, so I decided to just try it:

https://i.imgur.com/WEP4dcV.png

I assume "additional tasks" means needing to delete the tweet to be unsuspended, as the author described.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#220

Post by lapcat »

jdesjean wrote: post #137

Why is the consequence account suspension? We know the value these accounts can have and that moderators do not always get it right. Unless, the user has a history of bad behavior, the consequence should be flagging and hiding the content before warning the user. LinkedIn is one of the social media with a more sensible policy by following the latter.

> Why is the consequence account suspension?

Good question.

It feels Orwellian that Twitter suspends you and makes you delete your own tweet, on first offense, instead of just auto-hiding that one tweet.

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