A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#131

Post by OrangeMonkey » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 1:57 PM UTC

themitigating wrote: post #98

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #12

This is how big tech does damage to humans. Love it or hate it, the online world is our current public square. A public square, in the united states, has typically been an area where people can shout out their concerns or whatever they want to anyone who can listen and the government cannot stop it. Currently, our public squares are owned by private megacorporations that not only ban people for reasons many people ag…

These global public squares didn't exist until social media so I don't consider it a human right.

I've said it elsewhere in hnn today but I can say it again - I simultaneously think you are right and wrong.

* These global services are de-facto public squares and forcing people out of them is to the detriment of humanity.

* Private corporations shouldn't have their property stolen/appropriated by calling them public squares.

I am a human and that lets me hold contradictory thoughts. I don't know a way to fix this.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#132

Post by atemerev » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 1:58 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #114

atemerev wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good human reviews are, well, nearly impossible at the scale of Twitter or Google. It would require employing hundreds of thousands of reviewers, training them, and paying them decent salaries for one of the most horrible jobs in the world. So, everybody is trying to automate as much as possible in this area. I am sure that in this case, if there is a human even involved in the escalation, it takes them a few seconds…

Oh, so they'd have to spend a bunch of money to treat people like human beings? Boo fucking hoo. The money is the problem here. We should require them to spend that money, and if they can't remain profitable while employing sufficient human moderators to not be a net detriment to society, they should not be allowed to keep operating . We've gotten way too far down the rabbit hole of "any company that can conceivably…

OK, press for regulation! So far, I haven’t seen any mass action that would be sufficient for the big tech to change their ways. People are mostly content with the status quo.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#133

Post by gambiting » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #93

spicyusername wrote: post #7

It seems like the problem with many of these tech companies (and many modern companies in general) is that they've scaled faster than they have the ability to operate properly. "How can we possibly moderate properly without AI?" is really just another way of saying "We don't want to pay the money it's going to cost to moderate effectively and we're going to cross our fingers that we can solve problems caused by techn…

Do you think that Twitter could possibly survive as a company without large amounts of automated moderation?

It couldn't, but what all of these companies could absolutely do is pair automated moderation with human review. When AI flags something as innapropriate, a human has to sign it off before it's removed or the account suspended.

The only exception for it is when content matches a known hash for illegal content - then it should be removed automatically.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#134

Post by satyrnein » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

Forgeties79 wrote: post #64

jacquesm wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And what’s more, you can still read them if you’re banned. That is changing and in many places already no longer true.

Such as?

Twitter throws up a jarring sign-in wall if you scroll down more than a few tweets now.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#135

Post by lapcat » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #93

spicyusername wrote: post #7

It seems like the problem with many of these tech companies (and many modern companies in general) is that they've scaled faster than they have the ability to operate properly. "How can we possibly moderate properly without AI?" is really just another way of saying "We don't want to pay the money it's going to cost to moderate effectively and we're going to cross our fingers that we can solve problems caused by techn…

Do you think that Twitter could possibly survive as a company without large amounts of automated moderation?

No. And that's why Twitter should not exist as a company. If they were legally required to have human moderation, they would go out of business. And IMO the world would be better off.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#136

Post by AtlasBarfed » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #12

This is how big tech does damage to humans. Love it or hate it, the online world is our current public square. A public square, in the united states, has typically been an area where people can shout out their concerns or whatever they want to anyone who can listen and the government cannot stop it. Currently, our public squares are owned by private megacorporations that not only ban people for reasons many people ag…

Where are the legal recourses? Are EULAs that ironclad? And should you lose all "your" data?

It should be a law that days bans from companies must allow you to download your data, especially snt Publix presence site.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#137

Post by jdesjean » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

Why is the consequence account suspension? We know the value these accounts can have and that moderators do not always get it right. Unless, the user has a history of bad behavior, the consequence should be flagging and hiding the content before warning the user. LinkedIn is one of the social media with a more sensible policy by following the latter.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#138

Post by AtlasBarfed » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #131

themitigating wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These global public squares didn't exist until social media so I don't consider it a human right.

I've said it elsewhere in hnn today but I can say it again - I simultaneously think you are right and wrong. * These global services are de-facto public squares and forcing people out of them is to the detriment of humanity. * Private corporations shouldn't have their property stolen/appropriated by calling them public squares. I am a human and that lets me hold contradictory thoughts. I don't know a way to fix this.

Utilities have to deal with this contradiction, they build their critical services on public land.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#139

Post by mod » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:02 PM UTC

spicyusername wrote: post #7

It seems like the problem with many of these tech companies (and many modern companies in general) is that they've scaled faster than they have the ability to operate properly. "How can we possibly moderate properly without AI?" is really just another way of saying "We don't want to pay the money it's going to cost to moderate effectively and we're going to cross our fingers that we can solve problems caused by techn…

Per the article, there was a human involved in an appeal for this matter.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#140

Post by OrangeMonkey » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 2:02 PM UTC

Forgeties79 wrote: post #100

avereveard wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless your family counts two you cannot possibly compare the time facetiming each one of them vs just scrolling an aggregated news feed

Phone call, email, text message, Viber, WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, Telegram, actually interacting in person. Half my family isn’t even on Facebook and virtually none of us even use it anymore. If that’s the only way to keep up with family then don’t act like a complete jerk online, or you know don’t harass people , and you’ll be fine. Same as regular society. Contrary to popular belief, it actually takes…

It does not take a lot to get banned - you just have to have a stated opinion that does not correlate with a large portion of the user base.

If the civil rights movement was being organized on facebook today with the culture and beliefs of the 1950's as our users, I am very confident MLK would have been banned from every service.

... and someone, somewhere, would say 'don't act like a complete jerk online, or you know don't harass people, and you'll be fine'.

I don't mean this pointed at you, I completely get the feeling, but I think ignoring history and the current in/out groups is likely to lead to conclusions that are not realistic.