U.S. forgives 40k student loans • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#211

Post by dangerlibrary » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

hunterb123 wrote: post #139

marricks wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

45 million folks in the US have student loans so even some action for 3.6 million folks isn’t a large percentage.

So since it's only 8% it's fine? How many 8% increments can there be until we're allowed to be against this? I'm against any percentage of funneling taxpayer money to college administrators. Reduce tuition, don't rubber stamp federal loans while letting administrators increase costs.

This is just the Education department doing what it is required to do under various federal programs that have (pretty much by definition) existed for over a decade.

We can have a productive conversation about whether those programs were too generous or had unintended consequences, but millions of people have structured their finances around these programs and the rules in them - it's a rug-pull to suddenly have regrets and oppose the policies only now that the remaining balances are being wiped out.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#212

Post by throwaway894345 » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #187

commandlinefan wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who either have made bad decisions, had less fortunate circumstances than others, or a combination of both deserve to live under a mountain of debt for the rest of their life? - No Why does this logic only apply to people who made bad decisions and had less fortunate circumstances or a combination of both only apply to people who did so in the context of taking out student loans? If making bad decisions and…

Credit card debt, home loans, and auto loans are all far more dischargeable through bankruptcy than student loans. Bad credit card debt won’t be an anchor around your neck financially until you die. Neither will a bad home loan. Neither will a bad auto loan. But bad student will likely be with you until death.

If people could default on these loans, what incentive is there for lenders to agree to the loans in the first place? If you're a lender, why would you agree to a $50K loan to a teenager with no credit who can just default?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#213

Post by SamuelAdams » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

loeg wrote: post #107

dehrmann wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guarantee is the only reason the loans are made. Otherwise, you're lending a lot of money to someone with no income and no assets, and no one will want to make that loan.

They'd actually have to underwrite on the basis of the value of a degree -- yeah, no one is going to lend money to the same people who wouldn't be able to repay their loans after graduation. That's good!

This is a slippery slope though. This effectively turns universities into career-training centers. Eventually enrollment in less-profitable subjects, like dance and art, will decrease, forcing colleges to drop it from their programming.

Then suddenly we have a society that does not appreciate art or dance or whatever other subjects were dropped.

This is the slippery slope - creditors get to decide what others know and learn and pay attention to. Knowledge is no longer widely available - the experts (professors) might still teach at a college, but will be forced to either pivot or leave when the university slashes their programs. They could teach privately or for free, but I am guessing the number of students who they would normally teach drops significantly.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#214

Post by Damogran6 » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

InitialBP wrote: post #94

throwaway894345 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also reimburse the people who sacrificed to pay theirs off or avoid them in the first place. I’d donate my reimbursement if they did, but of course they won’t.

Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…

Bankruptcy and Restructuring are in place for people that make tremendously bad financial decisions...

...Except for College loans, which are expressly excluded.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#215

Post by janejeon » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #138

musicale wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an insane system that has enabled universities to drastically increase tuition and fees, outpacing inflation for more than half a century.

US: We should use the power of our massive government to subsidize and guarantee 30 year fixed home mortgages. House prices: shoot up US: Surprised pichachu face US: We should use the power of our massive government to subsidize and guarantee loans for college education so people can afford houses! College prices: shoot up US: Surprised pichachu face

All of this seems like a problem of leverage: the government's fiscal policy encouraged people to be levered up, then the fed's monetary policy allowed people to be levered up.

The "value" for any given thing (housing, college) remains similar, but more leverage for everybody means that same thing gets proportionally more expensive.

I don't see any way out of this except for popping the debt bubble.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#216

Post by sgjohnson » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #208

sergiosgc wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Student loans should be discharged on personal bankruptcy. All of the other examples you give can be written off like that. Student loans, however, are rarely discharged by judges on those processes.

It's pretty hard to repo an education.

Irrelevant. Bankruptcy wipes all of the unsecured debt.

Student loans are unsecured.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#217

Post by aksss » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

nr2x wrote: post #68

loourr wrote: post #12

It's crazy to cancel student loans and still keep issuing the exact same loans. If we believe the loans are unjust then the government should stop handing them out as the very first step.

Free community college was in build back better, 49 republicans and Joe Manchin killed it.

There were a couple other things with a few more dollars allocated in Build Back Better, if I recall, perhaps worthy of more criticism than community college for everyone. Anyway, I wonder how much of the student loan debt is from community college, both as total dollar figure and per borrower. Something tells me that in-state tuition for community college isn’t where all the underwater borrowers went to school.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#218

Post by BeFlatXIII » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #32

mc32 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stop guaranteeing them, let students default on them. All these guaranteed loans that can't be discharged allows academic institutions to ratchet up the price. Let them calculate risk and price them accordingly.

The guarantee is the only reason the loans are made. Otherwise, you're lending a lot of money to someone with no income and no assets, and no one will want to make that loan.

Good. Accelerate and force the "everyone must go to college" issue. Revert it to scholarship-only (plus the rich dunces who can afford full tuition).

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#219

Post by Damogran6 » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #187

commandlinefan wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who either have made bad decisions, had less fortunate circumstances than others, or a combination of both deserve to live under a mountain of debt for the rest of their life? - No Why does this logic only apply to people who made bad decisions and had less fortunate circumstances or a combination of both only apply to people who did so in the context of taking out student loans? If making bad decisions and…

Credit card debt, home loans, and auto loans are all far more dischargeable through bankruptcy than student loans. Bad credit card debt won’t be an anchor around your neck financially until you die. Neither will a bad home loan. Neither will a bad auto loan. But bad student will likely be with you until death.

The lenders would be more choosy as to who they give money to. (Kinda like the mortgage crisis)

There should be a situation where a lender refuses to give a prospective student $125k towards an education that would never result in repayment due to the available jobs from that type of education.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#220

Post by ohCh6zos » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

zeku wrote: post #207

ohCh6zos wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ended up working 60 hour weeks to not take out student loans. People talk about having a good time at college but all I remember is getting up at 4am to go to my first job, doing class all day and working my second job until 10pm. No spring breaks and no summers or holidays because I could work those hours to stay out of debt. It is hard to have much sympathy for people asking for student loan forgiveness. On the p…

Don't fall prey to these tales to yourself. I worked full time thru college for bad pay and still needed 30k in student loans to make it out with my degree. I went to a state school, nothing fancy. I hardly ever had fun in college, it was awful. The working world is waaaaaaay better for me. Not everyone who has loan debt just partied away on borrowed cash.

>The working world is waaaaaaay better for me.

Same for me, working seems so easy by comparison.

You're absolutely correct. The people in my life who are the most vocal about loan forgiveness treated their time at university like a party, but that is not a representative sample.