Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't view it as getting something in return. They made a choice. The people complying with this other program made a choice. Both choices result in less debt they have to worry about. This leads me to think we're having a different conversation than the one you want to have.
Sigh ... You are a teacher and have two kids, A and B. Kid A is the ideal student, never gets in trouble, always send assignments in time and comes out really well in all tests. Kid B is the complete opposite and is basically a mess (for whatever reason). At the end of the school year you decide to give both students the same grade. You (could) justify it by saying that this measure is going to motivate Kid B to beha…
U.S. forgives 40k student loans
191–200 of 483 posts
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…
That’s all fine and dandy until you realize the people who where smart and careful have to foot the bill for those who weren’t. I was smart and sacrificed a little by going to community college so I wouldn’t have debt. I was also smart enough to get a degree in stem where jobs are actually available and in demand. Why should I have to foot the bill for someone who just partied and got a useless degree? I did everythi…
> Why should I have to foot the bill for someone who just partied and got a useless degree?
Because you're a human being and recognise that while here you made no mistakes and had no bad luck, perhaps someone could have done that or had that. It's called decency, and you have it not because it benefits you. You have it because it benefits everyone.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
45 million folks in the US have student loans so even some action for 3.6 million folks isn’t a large percentage.
So since it's only 8% it's fine? How many 8% increments can there be until we're allowed to be against this? I'm against any percentage of funneling taxpayer money to college administrators. Reduce tuition, don't rubber stamp federal loans while letting administrators increase costs.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
> people who either have made bad decisions, had less fortunate circumstances than others, or a combination of both deserve to live under a mountain of debt for the rest of their life? - No Why does this logic only apply to people who made bad decisions and had less fortunate circumstances or a combination of both only apply to people who did so in the context of taking out student loans? If making bad decisions and…
Maybe it is, but it has to start somewhere. This is where it starts, what's the problem with that?
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
People who have paid their student loan debt are in exactly the same situation they were after this forgiveness than they were before: that is, they have no student loan debt. People in the US are not punished for being financially responsible. They are rewarded for taking risks, but not punished for being responsible. Very different.
> are in exactly the same situation I don’t know you could possibly reach that conclusion. I paid off my loan and lost 1000 hours of work. You didn’t have to work 1000 hours to pay off your loan. We’re not in exactly the same situation . I don’t know how else I can put this without ELI5’ing
"People who have paid their student loan debt are in exactly the same situation they were after this forgiveness than they were before"
Not:
"People who have paid their student loan debt are in exactly the same situation as those whose loans were forgiven"
You may have a valid point about why it's bad that the two people are in different situations (if you elaborate), but the parent did not say that the two people are in the same situation.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#196I'm a UK guy in my 50's. I went to uni (the US term for college) in '83. At the time I was in the minority of the population. I was given a grant of £3000pa and was able to make ends meet. I might have lived in, shall we say, the most salubrious of environments, but I emerged without debt. Same thing when I did my masters and PhD a few years after that. I basically caught the tail end of uni, when it was for the mino…
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#197I'm a UK guy in my 50's. I went to uni (the US term for college) in '83. At the time I was in the minority of the population. I was given a grant of £3000pa and was able to make ends meet. I might have lived in, shall we say, the most salubrious of environments, but I emerged without debt. Same thing when I did my masters and PhD a few years after that. I basically caught the tail end of uni, when it was for the mino…
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…
> people who either have made bad decisions, had less fortunate circumstances than others, or a combination of both deserve to live under a mountain of debt for the rest of their life? - No Why does this logic only apply to people who made bad decisions and had less fortunate circumstances or a combination of both only apply to people who did so in the context of taking out student loans? If making bad decisions and…
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
So since it's only 8% it's fine? How many 8% increments can there be until we're allowed to be against this? I'm against any percentage of funneling taxpayer money to college administrators. Reduce tuition, don't rubber stamp federal loans while letting administrators increase costs.
If you’re against wasting taxes spend your time typing about but defense boondoggles which actually waste tax payer money not a trillion owed to the government which it wasn’t ever going to get back anyways.
Submit an article about it, I'll for sure post my opinions on the matter.
Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans
#200I know every European seems to ask this of every American but what is the resistance to a welfare state? if you look at a government as investing in its citizens like a VC fund, then providing education and medical care is sensible, and some will turn out fine and others will be Bezos and then you can get your investment back via tax. I am honestly trying to avoid the flame war here - but I do it know how else to fra…
And anyway, the problem with education isn't that it's not available to enough people. Smart, motivated kids can get a university education even if they're poor. We have enough academics and highly-educated workers for our economic needs. The problem is that it's become a class marker. Many, many people don't want more degrees out there, because it would make their own degree less valuable. Others are desperate to get a degree at any cost, not because it improves their career prospects, but because it confers high status. So taking on huge debt for a useless degree is fine, and in fact good, because it's conspicuous consumption. Of course, debt sucks, so once they have the degree, loan forgiveness is very much in their interest, but not publicly-funded university.
On the larger question, I think it's a cultural thing. America was settled by people leaving stifling societies to go it alone: Europe at first, then the American establishment on the east coast. The frontier is gone, but that value system persists, and self-reliance and independence are hugely important to many people in the US. There's a pretty good argument to be made that American democracy arose because the wilderness was right there and if they didn't get a say in government, people would just move beyond its reach. That culture is has served us well, but we've run out of frontier, and we're starting to feel the social pressures that Europe has had for millennia. There's no escape from the state, so the way to get ahead is to work the system, get a larger share of the pie rather than growing it, and so on. The pushback to that is to demand more fairness from the system, ie, a welfare state.