The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown • Hacker News Board

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#211

Post by fortuna86 » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 3:11 AM UTC

Cookingboy wrote: post #32

ceejayoz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A simple visit to the Wikipedia article on Covid timeline showed that to be false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang "Rumors of a deadly SARS outbreak subsequently spread on Chinese social media platforms; Wuhan police summoned and admonished him on 3 January for "making false comments on the Internet about unconfirmed SARS outbreak."" > That was literally just a drunk guy falling on street. Covid doesn't j…

>Wuhan police summoned and admonished him on 3 January And? China notified WHO and US CDC about the new virus at the end of December: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pande... >"making false comments on the Internet about unconfirmed SARS outbreak."" And he was making false comment. He was an eye doctor and he was telling people in his WeChat group that the original SARS came back. >Sure. https:…

You spend a lot of time excusing the actions of an authoritarian government (while living in what I can only assume is a free western country).

Criticism of the Chinese government isn't criticism of you personally.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#212

Post by nradov » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 3:12 AM UTC

tacocataco wrote: post #94

godelski wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, as far as I can tell it's a very unevenly distributed disaster. I think this is one of the big issues with covid overall, especially how we discuss it over the internet. It is very possible that there is a person where everyone they know around them got covid as well as another person may only know one or two people who got it and only had mild cases. There's an extremely disproportionate distribution wh…

I was under the impression that there was a animal reservoir of covid out in the wild. Is that not true?

Yes most mammal species can carry the virus. It has been detected in dogs, cats, deer, tigers, mink, hamsters, gorillas, etc. This is one of several reasons why the virus can never be eradicated.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#213

Post by nradov » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 3:15 AM UTC

somewhereoutth wrote: post #186

spookthesunset wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it matters at all if it works or not. It shouldn’t be done. It’s basically a violation of basic human rights. I’d like to think even in our worst of times, we’d respect basic human rights…

But it isn't a violation of basic human rights. It is a community working together to protect itself from an 'invader' - much as we would see in places under attack by less invisible threats.

No that's incorrect. You appear to have made a category error. Protecting against a virus isn't a valid reason for violating the fundamental human right of free assembly.

And no, there is no human right to be protected against the risk of disease.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#214

Post by nradov » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 3:20 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #111

batch12 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it has worked until they have zero covid. Maybe a silver lining from this will be people resisting anything happening they perceive as mistreatment from their government.

If people weren't so resistant to government policy we might have seen something close to zero covid rolled out in the US and, instead of the US being the locus of disease for a number of years, we might have actually ended this pandemic with a decisive but painful quarantine - instead we'll continue in this state of psuedo quarantine for who knows how many years... how we comport ourselves today might just be the ne…

That's just nonsense completely divorced from scientific reality. Even a strict quarantine wouldn't have sufficed to stop a highly contagious respiratory virus with multiple animal reservoirs.

It's now clear that the best strategy would have been to focus on protecting the most vulnerable, as recommended by leading experts back in 2020.

https://gbdeclaration.org/

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#215

Post by munk-a » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 3:23 AM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #166

munk-a wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact I have mostly confined myself to my house. I can work remotely and we have an income sufficient to rely on instacart and delivery for food. We go out for walks in the neighborhood but we avoid going in stores or restaurants except on rare occasions. We've taken one vacation (during the lull before omicron became a thing) and we'll try and take another vacation this summer but, otherwise, we're trying our best…

It requires a lot of privilege to live the kind of Covid lifestyle you describe.

Absolutely, I'm not saying it's something everyone should go through - I'm just saying that because we can afford to do it we're trying to keep from adding more problems to the pandemic.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#216

Post by uxp100 » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 3:23 AM UTC

rnk wrote: post #177

uxp100 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I think people believe that there would not be that many deaths because China has a heavily vaccinated population and a less strict lockdown could still be stricter than anything the US did, perhaps something closer to Australia. On the first point, I think that the Chinese vaccine is much worse than the mRNA vaccines against Omicron, but I'm not sure what that would mean for death rates. On the second point,…

A less effective vaccine pretty directly leads to higher death rates. I read in other news articles they didn't aggressively vaccinate older people like we did. Apparently a similar thing has happened in Hong Kong.

Well, less effective on some measure is not the same as less effective as preventing death, and I'm not sure how much less effective it is, actually.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#217

Post by nradov » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 3:28 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #104

jtc331 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming their reported death numbers are accurate. You are also assuming the deaths caused by these policies won’t end up exceeding that number. Neither assumptions are backed by evidence.

That's exactly my concern too - right now China's response looks great on the world stage... but the pandemic isn't over yet and China rolled out an extremely ineffective vaccine that leaves their population quite vulnerable. If this disaster spreads to other Chinese metropolitan areas it would be devastating.

China's response actually looks terrible on the world stage. I didn't see any other countries welding people into their apartments as a drastic overreaction.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#218

Post by user_named » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 4:15 AM UTC

jaqalopes wrote: post #8

I lived in Shanghai for 5 years and have many friends and business connects there. I would never, ever want to be seen as carrying water for the CCP--the day they abolished term limits for Xi was the day I started planning my exit. I've been following this situation for almost a month now and in one sense it's every bit as bad as it looks. An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhap…

The issue is the indefinite timeline and the shutdown of grocery deliveries. You can get food now via wechat more easily, but it's been a huge amount of uncertainty the past 14 days.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#219

Post by user_named » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 4:16 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

jaqalopes wrote: post #8

I lived in Shanghai for 5 years and have many friends and business connects there. I would never, ever want to be seen as carrying water for the CCP--the day they abolished term limits for Xi was the day I started planning my exit. I've been following this situation for almost a month now and in one sense it's every bit as bad as it looks. An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhap…

> But on the other hand, my friends who are quarantined and didn't get it are just bored to death, drinking and gaming and working from home, just treading water until this "ends." From what I've been hearing, the big problem for lots of people stuck under lockdown is simply getting groceries/food deliveries at all. The government isn't letting delivery people work, and the military response to distributing food isn'…

Correct. I'm in Shanghai.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#220

Post by ahmedalsudani » Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 4:18 AM UTC

lazide wrote: post #101

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helps prevent infection and temper symptoms but it's not as effective as the mRNA vaccines. Something like 50% vs 90% though that could be old data.

At least one new variant can burn through even double shot vaccinated and boosted in extreme cases. Due to various factors outside of my control, my toddler has now gotten Covid 4 times in the last year (10 months really). Antigen and PCR confirmed. Most recently, a minor window of exposure got my oldest sick (double shot vaccinated), and taking care of both of them eventually got me sick (double shot vaccinated, boo…

Ouch! 4 times in a year is crazy!

Glad to hear your infection came with no severe symptoms.

Being able to come in contact without worrying about being the unlucky person who gets hospitalized is something to be thankful for. The vaccines have been a gift.