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The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

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Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#11

Post by Retric »

partido3619463 wrote: post #2

Given the other stories posted on this site (universally claiming lockdowns were pointless and no medical reason for them), makes me question whether these stories are representative.

Plenty of studies showed lockdowns worked. The long term impact on COVID in vaccinated vs unvaccinated populations has eroded how deadly people perceive COVID. Estimates vary especially around secondary effects like hospitals being overcrowded, but cumulatively lockdowns in the US saved in the low millions of lives.

“The study found that from March through August 2020, implementing widespread lockdowns and other mitigation in the United States potentially saved more lives (866,350 to 1,711,150) than the number of lives potentially lost (57,922 to 245,055) that were attributable to the economic downturn.”

However, don’t take my or anyone else’s word for it. The research is publicly available if you go looking.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#12

Post by Cookingboy »

ceejayoz wrote: post #6
rjbwork wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it is difficult to trust anything coming out of the Chinese regime, especially if it has the potential to make them look bad.

China tried to actively cover up the infection in Wuhan. News got out, doctors posted on social media, video on Reddit showed people dying in the streets. China's great at suppressing protests, but informationally they're still porous. If millions of Chinese were dying of COVID, we'd know it. If suppressing information about deaths worked as well as you're asserting, they wouldn't have to publicly lock down Shanghai,…

>China tried to actively cover up the infection in Wuhan. News got out, doctors posted on social media

A simple visit to the Wikipedia article on Covid timeline showed that to be false.

>video on Reddit showed people dying in the streets.

That was literally just a drunk guy falling on street. Covid doesn't just make people drop dead while walking on the street lol. America suffered a million Covid deaths and we have zero videos of people just drop dead on the street from it.

But I agree with you, you can't cover up an actual pandemic in a country with hundreds of thousands of foreigners living and working there.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#13

Post by bigcat123 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #6
rjbwork wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it is difficult to trust anything coming out of the Chinese regime, especially if it has the potential to make them look bad.

China tried to actively cover up the infection in Wuhan. News got out, doctors posted on social media, video on Reddit showed people dying in the streets. China's great at suppressing protests, but informationally they're still porous. If millions of Chinese were dying of COVID, we'd know it. If suppressing information about deaths worked as well as you're asserting, they wouldn't have to publicly lock down Shanghai,…

No post body was provided.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#14

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jaqalopes wrote: post #8

I lived in Shanghai for 5 years and have many friends and business connects there. I would never, ever want to be seen as carrying water for the CCP--the day they abolished term limits for Xi was the day I started planning my exit. I've been following this situation for almost a month now and in one sense it's every bit as bad as it looks. An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhap…

> But on the other hand, my friends who are quarantined and didn't get it are just bored to death, drinking and gaming and working from home, just treading water until this "ends."

From what I've been hearing, the big problem for lots of people stuck under lockdown is simply getting groceries/food deliveries at all. The government isn't letting delivery people work, and the military response to distributing food isn't filling the gap (maybe if you are lucky, you'll get some pork and bai cai form the gov at your door). So that would suck, if true. I also rather guess experiences differ between richer districts and poorer ones.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#16

Post by gyf304 »

We must protect human lives at all costs, even at the cost of human lives.

Jokes aside, what we really want to know is that - what are the human lives lost lockdown v.s. no lockdown, maybe also factor in the possible economic downturns. The government did a not-so-good job convincing people that doing a lockdown is indeed better than the alternative - "We ran the numbers, it seems like doing a lockdown at this stage is beneficial" sounds better than doing a lockdown just for the sake of it.

And: limiting information to people doesn't help boost confidence.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#17

Post by BobbyJo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #10
open-source-ux wrote: post #7

According to this BBC video report, more Shanghai residents are venting their anger and frustration by posting videos on social media. Such videos are normally censored by China's 'Great Firewall'. The BBC website states: "...the sheer volume of the clips has made it difficult for censors to keep up. Many are also being passed around in private group chats, which has made them harder to catch." Shanghai lockdown: How…

I know this is a nit, but that is a misrepresentation of what the Great Firewall is (to keep things out of the country) vs. the internal censorship regime that domestic internet services are supposed to provide. In this case, it is the internal censorship apparatus that cannot keep up, not the great firewall failing from letting information in or out of the country.

I think the term 'Great Firewall' has become a colloquialism for the compute resources the CCP uses to further their agenda. They've used the same set of network/compute resources to commit cyber attacks, so thinking of the Great Firewall as only the filter for the outside world gives a false impression of how their systems work and are deployed.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#18

Post by ceejayoz »

Cookingboy wrote: post #12
ceejayoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China tried to actively cover up the infection in Wuhan. News got out, doctors posted on social media, video on Reddit showed people dying in the streets. China's great at suppressing protests, but informationally they're still porous. If millions of Chinese were dying of COVID, we'd know it. If suppressing information about deaths worked as well as you're asserting, they wouldn't have to publicly lock down Shanghai,…

>China tried to actively cover up the infection in Wuhan. News got out, doctors posted on social media A simple visit to the Wikipedia article on Covid timeline showed that to be false. >video on Reddit showed people dying in the streets. That was literally just a drunk guy falling on street. Covid doesn't just make people drop dead while walking on the street lol. America suffered a million Covid deaths and we have…

> A simple visit to the Wikipedia article on Covid timeline showed that to be false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang

"Rumors of a deadly SARS outbreak subsequently spread on Chinese social media platforms; Wuhan police summoned and admonished him on 3 January for "making false comments on the Internet about unconfirmed SARS outbreak.""

> That was literally just a drunk guy falling on street. Covid doesn't just make people drop dead while walking on the street lol.

Sure. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/a-man-lies-dea...

There were a lot of these at the time: https://www.ibtimes.sg/china-virus-chilling-videos-wuhan-sho...

One of the defining early characteristics of COVID was shockingly low blood oxygen levels without other symptoms until you pass out. (Asymptomatic hypoxia: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8062941/)

Reddit's what got me to stock up a bit in February, which put me in a good position when shelves got empty in March.

> America suffered a million Covid deaths and we have zero videos of people just drop dead on the street from it.

We benefited from knowing about the virus by the time it hit here in any significant amount. (We definitely had a few: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/20/us/woman-dies-of-covid-on-pla...) Wuhan in January 2020 didn't know mild cold symptoms could turn rapidly into hypoxia and walking pneumonia.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#19

Post by dqpb »

jaqalopes wrote: post #8

I lived in Shanghai for 5 years and have many friends and business connects there. I would never, ever want to be seen as carrying water for the CCP--the day they abolished term limits for Xi was the day I started planning my exit. I've been following this situation for almost a month now and in one sense it's every bit as bad as it looks. An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhap…

> An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhaps even uncaring, government

The inevitable result of centralized control.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#20

Post by aaa_aaa »

Retric wrote: post #11
partido3619463 wrote: post #2

Given the other stories posted on this site (universally claiming lockdowns were pointless and no medical reason for them), makes me question whether these stories are representative.

Plenty of studies showed lockdowns worked. The long term impact on COVID in vaccinated vs unvaccinated populations has eroded how deadly people perceive COVID. Estimates vary especially around secondary effects like hospitals being overcrowded, but cumulatively lockdowns in the US saved in the low millions of lives. “The study found that from March through August 2020, implementing widespread lockdowns and other miti…

No post body was provided.
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