Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 333 posts

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#211

Post by gruez »

causality0 wrote: post #152
gruez wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it strange that you accuse me of being "obtuse", but you respond with the most softball examples. What about calls of violence against "russians"? Is "let's find russian nationals in ukraine and lynch them" okay? What about "let's invade russia and kill women children as payback"? I would hope not, but based on a permissive reading of the article it certainly seems allowed.

This was directly addressed. They said the calls for violence against Russian soldiers were allowed because this was being used as a proxy for the Russian military, and said it would not apply to prisoners of war. It's not permissible when referring to anyone but Russian soldiers actively involved in the invasion, not even ones who were involved but are no longer. I don't know how the meaning could be any more explic…

> I don't know how the meaning could be any more explicit.

The exact wording in the first paragraph was:

>Meta Platforms (FB.O) will allow Facebook and Instagram users in some countries to call for violence against Russians and Russian soldiers in the context of the Ukraine invasion

Which would suggest call for violence towards "Russians" (presumably all russians, not just russian military personnel) would be allowed. That said, the article was later edited and clarified that the exemption did not apply to russian civilians, so the question is largely moot.

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#212

Post by unmole »

pmalynin wrote: post #209
unmole wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invasion of Poland literally triggered WW2 with the UK and France declaring war against Germany. Has anything comparable happened yet? No? Then how is it different from any of the dozens of wars fought since WW2?

The UK guaranteed the independence of Poland with an agreement that in language is the same as the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. The West is refusing to fulfill its current obligations under the spirit of that agreement, the same way the UK could have failed to fulfill their agreement in 1939. So in retrospect saying “it literally triggered WW2” provides zero informational context as to the situation as…

With the Budapest Memorandum, the UK agreed to

> Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".

Which it did.

While the British assurance to Poland was:

> ...in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence, and which the Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with their national forces, His Majesty's Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power.

That isn't remotely the same language.

The West is refusing to escalate the conflict which might trigger a world war. It isn't a world war yet and there is no appetite in the West for one.

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#213

Post by mardifoufs »

cafard wrote: post #198
mardifoufs wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just hope no one ever uses the catchy rule of thumb that"if 9 people sit around a table with 1 nazi, there are 10 nazis around that table" again seriously after this haha. It's that not even 1 month ago if one person at a protest had a nazi flag everyone protesting there was also labeled a nazi. But you got NATO publicly glorifying soldiers with literal nazi insignia (the black sun) and that's just being the good g…

Was Russia invading that protest at the time?

Does that matter? So national socialist groups are okay in times of war? Associating with Neonazi groups is suddenly fine when they are fighting on the side you cheer for?

Fuck the russian government and their war of aggression, unequivocally. Ive lost a distant friend in syria during The russian government's intervention there, and some of my current refugee friends lost their homes to their bombs. So yes I have no love for putins regime.

But can we please stop making excuses for literal nazis ? It's so weird to basically normalize or even encourage such groups because you don't want to agree with anything russia says. Those groups have been growing for the past 2 weeks because of that completely passive attitude where no one wants to be criticizing "our team". They can openly wear insignia designed by Himmler in front of cameras and still be praised by NATO. I think we should realize that this is not a marvel movie with a clear good vs bad plot. So there's nothing wrong with admitting there is a huge far right problem and still be against the invasion. The "good side" can be criticized without support the "evil side"

For the past few years I've been hearing that we can focus on more than a single issue at the time, so why not do that? Because wow this completely insane 180° on far right groups in a mere 2 weeks really really make the craze around anti fascism and nazism accusations in the past 5 years look like complete poltical theater. At this point I won't even be surprised if we start justifying actual war crimes if the Good side does it.

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#214

Post by ratsmack »

mardifoufs wrote: post #158
delusional wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War makes unlikely alliances. If you're fighting for the existence of your country you're not going to say no to the help of nazis. And if you're using the biggest social media platform on the planet to organize that war, you're going to want your allies on it. What you've just discovered is that a unified policy across the entire world isn't actually the right policy. In one country you may want to ban some stuff yo…

I just hope no one ever uses the catchy rule of thumb that"if 9 people sit around a table with 1 nazi, there are 10 nazis around that table" again seriously after this haha. It's that not even 1 month ago if one person at a protest had a nazi flag everyone protesting there was also labeled a nazi. But you got NATO publicly glorifying soldiers with literal nazi insignia (the black sun) and that's just being the good g…

I had never heard of Oliver Stone's "Ukraine On Fire" documentary until YouTube banned it, so I watched it last night to see what the problem was. It seemed to be a well documented summary of the events in Ukraine in the last 25 years or so. One notable thing was the number of times Nazis were entered into the picture, and it is strange that no one is talking about it.

I can say my perspective has changed a little bit on the subject.

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#215

Post by zoomablemind »

shmobot wrote: post #206
zoomablemind wrote: post #177

There is no point in calling for violence on social media against anyone, the Russian people including. It may feel liberating for some to post such calls, but the actual killing is happening right now on the real ground, not virtual. This is what needs to stop! Channeling the anger and helplessness against the aggressor into the hate is not making people stronger and is not going to stop the aggression. If anything,…

I genuinely wonder if such kumbaya rhetoric stays the same once the person actually experiences the bombing of his own house and see people around him heart or dead. Or just forced to leave his own home abandoning everything behind. Watching closely Russian politics for the last 20 years, the one thing they do perfectly is use this kindness and tolerance of the West against them. Once in house the authorities repress…

No kumbaya singing here. Quite the opposite.

People in Russian govt., army, and media who are responsible for planning, authorizing, executing, and justifying this barbaric aggression against Ukraine should be tried as war criminals.

Just as the people of the Russian Federation should bear responsibility for condoning and rationalizing these actions.

The rift between people of the Russian Federation (Belarus too) and Ukraine is already ripped in millions of hearts which will likely remain unbridgeable for the forseeable future.

However, for any justice to take place, the accounts should be collected of what happened and how people's lives were affected.

That's why a hateful post by itself may be enough for someone to channel the anger and grief, but its effect would be a lot more meaningful, if the personal experiences are recounted instead.

Also, many people's daily lives, I'm sure, are touched by these events. Many may feel anxiety and horror even though they may not be directly related to Ukraine or Russia. Hate by itself will not express this. Yet documented, it is another statement to count towards those who perpertrated these crimes.

The world has been through this before, yet here we go again!

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#216

Post by lamp987 »

IAmWorried wrote: post #58

What the actual fuck is wrong with these people? Calling for literal violence against Russians is less dangerous than claiming masks aren't helpful? Is there something here I'm not getting?

that the moral rules of liberalism are one big lie

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#217

Post by ecf »

Gravyness wrote: post #207
Ice_cream_suit wrote: post #191

Sadly, being anti-Russian has become the new green. Russian's are humans too and deserve as much respect and consideration as every other nationality. Remember, next time your race / religion / sexual orientation/ nationality might be the one being demonised, simply because someone powerful can make money out of having the masses hate you. Resist the urge to give into mindless hatred and jingoism.

You mean the actions of a single person in power does not reflect 100% of the population of a country? Carefull, next you'll be telling me to think for myself or something!

If it were _only_ a single person, then it would be trivial to stop said person.

Russian support for the war in Ukraine is a whole lot more commin than you think.

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#218

Post by ejanus »

djrogers wrote: post #113
javert wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The only potential caveat is if Russia uses nukes That's a ridiculously huge caveat - especially since the guy in charge appears to be unstable and has already threatened to use them. Triggering Putin would potentially be condemning hundreds of millions of people to death.

How did you get your information that he is 'unstable"?

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#219

Post by ashwagary »

squarefoot wrote: post #145
stjohnswarts wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If NATO shoots down a Russian plane in Ukraine it is most likely WW3. I don't see how anyone can see it any other way.

If Russia starts WW3 they'll be nuked as well. Contrary to popular belief, Putin is all but stupid or crazy, and he'd never put himself and his country in a position to lose everything. If NATO or any other EU country shoots down a Russian plane -in Ukraine- Russians will retaliate -in Ukraine- with conventional weapons. But this time they know the odds might be against them and probably will be more inclined to real…

>If NATO or any other EU country shoots down a Russian plane -in Ukraine- Russians will retaliate -in Ukraine- with conventional weapons.

I think this is a sensitive area where acting like there is any certainty is dangerous. I can't agree with your assumptions about 2nd order and 3rd order effects because there are too many known and unknown variables to consider.

Re: Facebook and Instagram to temporarily allow calls for violence against Russians

#220

Post by ashwagary »

keewee7 wrote: post #172
delusional wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War makes unlikely alliances. If you're fighting for the existence of your country you're not going to say no to the help of nazis. And if you're using the biggest social media platform on the planet to organize that war, you're going to want your allies on it. What you've just discovered is that a unified policy across the entire world isn't actually the right policy. In one country you may want to ban some stuff yo…

>War makes unlikely alliances. If you're fighting for the existence of your country you're not going to say no to the help of nazis. Well said. When Nazi Germany occupied Denmark it was a far-right conservative Danish resistance movement that helped Danish Jews flee to Sweden.

[flagged]
Post reply on HN