Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 383 posts

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#211

Post by Scoundreller »

nradov wrote: post #177
Scoundreller wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically the Canada problem: we have tough rules for 95% of people, but we exempt 5% from it, so every variant quickly ends up here uncontrollably anyway. Windsor Ontario has something like 1000+ health care workers commuting to the Detroit area that have been exempt from most entry test/vaccination/quarantine requirements. Same for truckers and flight crews and ~30 other groups. I think this is only changin…

A vaccination requirement wouldn't do anything to control the spread of every new variant. The primary benefit of vaccination is preventing severe symptoms; it doesn't prevent infection or transmission. Covid-zero is impossible in any open society. China is still pursuing a covid-zero policy, but even with locking down entire cities and imposing travel bans they're far from zero.

> A vaccination requirement wouldn't do anything to control the spread of every new variant

It may increase it by selecting the un-protected strains.

> it doesn't prevent infection or transmission

Source? We’ve (largely) vaccinated our way out of other diseases. I haven’t heard of any outbreaks of mild measles or mild rubella and I suspect it’s because vaccination gets the R lower.

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#212

Post by aix1 »

artursapek wrote: post #99
boringg wrote: post #19

More fuel to the fire - no reason he should get a pass when other people can't. Sorry - it's only tennis and he's trying to cheat to get in. This isn't to political leaders talking about the fate of their people.

If the vaccines don't prevent spread or contraction of the virus, why are people upset with him standing up against these pointless vaccine mandates?

> why are people upset with him standing up against these pointless vaccine mandates?

In these events he is not standing up against anything. He appears to be quietly proving false statements about his test results and/or his recent travel history in order to manipulate the system to his advantage (i.e. gain the ability to take part in a tournament in a country he is likely not eligible to enter).

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#213

Post by megous »

mfer wrote: post #129
joshenberg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially in tennis where tournaments are designed to be 'open', that is semi-professional and allowing for amateur entrants. If he were professionally affiliated with a particular country, that might be an extenuating circumstance. But as he is a private citizen seeking glory in AU, it's inappropriate to make an exception in this case.

The exception was a process provided by the Australian Open tournament. More than 20 people applied for it and a handful of people were approved. Should all of the people who got exceptions be turned away now? Was the Australian Open tournament wrong for providing this process? Was Novak wrong for taking advantage of a process provided by the tournament?

> Should all of the people who got exceptions be turned away now?

Some (or maybe all) already were.

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#214

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

weinzierl wrote: post #201
perakojotgenije wrote: post #185

"Absolutely wrong. Timestamp is the time of pdf download. Everytime you repeat the process timestamp will change. Difference in confirmation code is because he used 2 different state labs on 16th and 22nd. Very poor analysis, I have to conclude."[1] "You need to understand that these papers are not fakes. Both tests, database records as well as pdf certificates are 100% legit. He and his family have enough influence…

The Spiegel article [1] additionally claims (and supports with screenshots) that the 7371999-259039 certificate reported a negative result at a previous point in time. Unfortunately there is no way to verify that, but still: Any ideas how it could be explained? [1] https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/novak-djokovic-we...

They claim that they got both negative and positive results yesterday, which almost has to be user error or a software bug. Even if someone at the Serbian health agency had write access and were dedicated to helping Djokovic, why would they want to change the results a week after he landed in Australia? (A bad table join could easily cause this, although I'm not sure why that wouldn't have caused larger issues in Serbian test tracking.)

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#215

Post by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo »

ls15 wrote: post #127
zo1 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a feature if you ask me.

Maybe, but it also is an unprecedented privacy invasion at mass scale. Medical data used to be protected private information. At least in my country. Now everyone and their grandmother is entitled to be informed about personal medical details. It leaves a bitter taste.

It's totally anonymous the only thing that makes it identifable is you telling someone else your url. It's fine.

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#216

Post by jeffrallen »

perakojotgenije wrote: post #185

"Absolutely wrong. Timestamp is the time of pdf download. Everytime you repeat the process timestamp will change. Difference in confirmation code is because he used 2 different state labs on 16th and 22nd. Very poor analysis, I have to conclude."[1] "You need to understand that these papers are not fakes. Both tests, database records as well as pdf certificates are 100% legit. He and his family have enough influence…

Regarding (2): in French we call those "faux vrai papiers", fake real papers. They are records that are issued via the legitimate system, but fraudulently. There is an epidemic of fake Covid vaccination records coming from France of this type, and being bought at least in Switzerland, and probably all over Europe

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#217

Post by mfer »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #193
mfer wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose fault is it if the tournament didn't put a process together that worked properly with the government? The people who used the process or the organization that created it?

> Whose fault is it if the tournament didn't put a process together that worked properly with the government? Djokovic may have a claim against the Australian Open for wasting time and causing inconvenience. That doesn't mean Canberra must grant him a visa. And it is in no way an excuse for submitting falsified documents (if he did that, which is far from proven) to Canberra and her courts.

If he is singled out while the others who successfully went through this process are not wouldn't it should some form of prejudice? Targeting a high profile player to show that a politician in more powerful, or something like that?

The dynamics here are interesting, too.

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#218

Post by nradov »

Scoundreller wrote: post #211
nradov wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vaccination requirement wouldn't do anything to control the spread of every new variant. The primary benefit of vaccination is preventing severe symptoms; it doesn't prevent infection or transmission. Covid-zero is impossible in any open society. China is still pursuing a covid-zero policy, but even with locking down entire cities and imposing travel bans they're far from zero.

> A vaccination requirement wouldn't do anything to control the spread of every new variant It may increase it by selecting the un-protected strains. > it doesn't prevent infection or transmission Source? We’ve (largely) vaccinated our way out of other diseases. I haven’t heard of any outbreaks of mild measles or mild rubella and I suspect it’s because vaccination gets the R lower.

The COVID-19 vaccines are far less effective than measles and rubella vaccines.

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#219

Post by tinus_hn »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #126
renaudg wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just Serbia : EU countries have implemented an interoperable vaccination/testing certificate system that relies on digital signatures. https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-re...

But Serbia's system seems flawed, the EU system has all the data encoded in the QR-code, including name, the date the test was performed, the sort of test (PCR or antigen), and the result, plus a digital signature to prevent changing of those fields. And the QR code is given to the person and is static. The app that checks it checks that the document hasn't been modified by verifying the digital signature. What Serbi…

The Netherlands has a separate local and international version as well with less information in the local version because they didn’t want everyone and his dog implementing different rules.

But for the international version you can’t just decide to give less information because then it won’t accepted.

Re: Djokovic's PCR test was manipulated?

#220

Post by mfer »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #197
mfer wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I was clear enough. By going for an exception he wasn't trying to cheat the tournament or government. If he tried to cheat while in the process that's a different matter. > Djokovic submitted falsified documents If the dates are real from the records everyone has found then he would, in theory, still qualify. So, why change the dates? Djokovic has people who do all this stuff for him. I wonder if someth…

> If the dates are real from the records everyone has found then he would, in theory, still qualify Djokovic pursued an exemption on the basis of recovery. That requires a positive test followed by a negative one. If the allegations here hold, he tested negative and then positive. That wouldn't be proof of recovery, but of infection.

There is a lot we don't know and I'm slow to judge and curious for more information.

For example, was he getting regular rests due to being tennis? Did the wrong ID for the recovery test result get submitted by accident? This is plausible and accidents do happen.

I'll be curious to see more details that come out on this.

Post reply on HN