Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 1001 posts

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#211

Post by krater23 »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #70
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Analog phone networks break down (you get no dialtone) if everyone in the service area picked up their handset and want to dial-out, they have much fewer lines than handsets, because they calculated what capacity they might need (how many calls would be ongoing at one time) and just have that many lines, plus maybe a safety margin. I'm guessing it's the same with ICU beds... And now we have a situation where a high p…

Yes, but do you really think we should manage our health system like a windy cell phone network provider? By the way, the cell phone networks and internet connections in Germany are on the level of some 3rd world countries.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#213

Post by krastanov »

mandmandam wrote: post #175
jjoonathan wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.

People saying this are being flagged, but the fact remains that COVID vaccines don't stop transmission. The CDC themselves state that viral load is similar in fully vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. And yes, people have the right to refuse medical treament; that's a human right. It's there for very good reasons, and there is broad agreement among civil liberties experts on that point.

This study (respectable institution, large sample, not yet peer reviewed) seems to claim vaccines significantly lower the chance of transmisson. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#214

Post by ceesharp »

joeman1000 wrote: post #134
blub wrote: post #90

Very thought-provoking this mistreatment of the unvaccinated. The process started with demonizing them to the point of being singled out and blamed for how the disease is impacting society. When the discrimination started, there were very few willing to speak for them. Particularly malicious was the expansion of the term anti-vaxxer typically used for a fringe minority which “rejects all vaccines for everyone” to all…

I’m not vaccinated, this is how I feel. I am not militant or political about it. My wife and whole family are vaccinated and I helped them to do it. As a young man, the risk of heart issues does indeed outweigh the risk of hospitalisation from the virus (as I’ve weighed it, anyhow). Victoria, Australia has hit 90% double vaccinated and case numbers have not changed here. To see this underwhelming effect in light of t…

"Das Recht, mit der Faust um sich zu schlagen, hört auf, wo die Nase des Mitmenschen anfängt."

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#215

Post by csee »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #34
lillecarl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the risk of transmission is understood to be significantly lower, and since unvaccinated people are more likely to cause the virus to mutate it's in the governments best interest to get people vaccinated, a way of accomplishing this could be making life inconvenient for the uncompliant.

Hm, so a vaccine that does not stop transmission does not create selective pressure on the virus? Wouldn’t that be unusual from an evolutionary biology standpoint? Can we at least agree that if infected, as a vaccinated and asymptomatic carrier, there is a higher chance of transmission than if I were unvaccinated and symptomatic? This seems like common sense to me, but I recognize it goes against the Covid orthodoxy.…

Vaccines probably reduce the chance of a new variant.

A lower viral load means a lower probability of a mutation happening, given that the number of mutations is proportional to the load over time.

There's some small chance that the opposite is true, and vaccines will mean deadly strains are more easily spread since the person is more likely to be asymptomatic or low-symptoms and will therefore not isolate.

But on net we expect vaccines to prevent variants.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#216

Post by throw20211202 »

user-the-name wrote: post #169
lbj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early" It probably wasn't. There have been 2 major studies on the effects of covid-lockdown measures, they show a small increase in total mortality. So we should have done as the Swedes and kept everything open from beginning to end.

Sweden had mortality rates nearly 10x those of their neighbours.

Not really, though:

* Sweden: 1,485

* Denmark: 500

* Finland: 244

* Norway: 199

* Iceland (not really a neighbour, being a 1000 miles away, accross an ocean): 102

Some more random cherrypicking:

* USA: 2,414

* Italy: 2,221

* Belgium: 2,322

* UK: 2,124

* Russia: 1,901

* Peru: 5,984

Deaths per million capita, as of 2nd december 2021, from[1].

[1] All numbers from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#217

Post by rwaxm »

'"We have understood that the situation is very serious and that we want to take further measures in addition to those already taken," Merkel told reporters at Thursday's news conference. "The fourth wave must be broken and this has not yet been achieved," she added.'

You do not need special measures. Florida and Sweden didn't have any and have the best graphs right now. Outbreaks stop by themselves.

Of course, if you lock down the unvaccinated right when the bell curve is at its natural top, you can take credit when the numbers go down. This is exactly what is happening right now.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#219

Post by krastanov »

mythrwy wrote: post #158
jjoonathan wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.

It's hard to sympathize with people who still believe this series of vaccines prevents others from spreading infections and thus all measures to require compliance are fine.

See sibling comments for the citations. Vaccines significantly lower the chance for transmission.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#220

Post by periheli0n »

nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Germany was long criticised for its overcapacity of intensive care wards. Just up until the pandemic hit.
Post reply on HN