Wow... I thought it was just tinfoil hat types that were avoiding this vaccine because they were afraid Bill Gates was using it to implant a tracking chip inside them. But if healthcare workers - who actually know what's in this thing - are so vaccine-hesitant that the government has to mandate it to them, I'm suddenly worried whether or not I should think twice about getting a booster (or worse, giving it to my children).
Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
211–220 of 402 posts
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Too often we look at the end results (e.g. will this increase vaccination rates) Even that might not be quite the best end result to be looking for (unless you own the jab patents). Shouldn't we be looking at clinical outcomes of covid patients, or counts of severe covid cases instead? If we optimized for marriage rate in the world we might end up with a whole lot of unhappy couples and/or broken homes.
Vaccinated people have far, far fewer cases of severe covid and far fewer deaths. What else do you want them to look at?
Is that true for all ages?
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
> to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients Suppose an anti-abortion president gets elected and he elects someone as head and tells them that health care providers that accept medicare or medicaid cannot provide abortions. Not making it illegal per-se, but just for the providers that accept medicare or medicaid for any of their services. You okay with this as well?
The person you're replying to has a slightly incorrect statement. At least to my knowledge. CMS only controls this for patients covered by Medicaid/Medicare. It can set the tone for the entire industry, but does not solely control the industry. Typically, they create influence by setting/rejecting Medicaid/Medicare reimbursement standards. Since enough patients are covered by CMS, it tends to be easier for hospitals…
It might be a difference without a distinction, but technically the provider is participating, non-participating, or opt-out. In the first two cases, the provider has to meet those standards, and while I'm sure that there might be deltas between how medicare/medicaid patients and non- are covered (e.g. minimum post-procedure length of stays), all of the requirements around the provider apply to everyone at the provider. That is, you can't have one hospital administrator with a degree for the medicaid people and one without for not - the hospital administrators, full stop, have to have the appropriate degrees and certifications.
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that the role of the CMS, as established by congress, is to set the guidelines of care and standards of participation for providers who opt to accept Medicare and Medicaid patients. They set rules for everything from how many hospitals can be owned by a single entity, to what sorts of qualifications are required for hospital administrators, to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients. T…
> to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients Suppose an anti-abortion president gets elected and he elects someone as head and tells them that health care providers that accept medicare or medicaid cannot provide abortions. Not making it illegal per-se, but just for the providers that accept medicare or medicaid for any of their services. You okay with this as well?
I'm not ok with it, but would be forced to accept that it is within the authority granted to the agency to make that call.
Assuming it is: I think policy measures like that should be subject to medical needs. I think there's a clear medical need to require COVID vaccinations for healthcare workers, but banning abortions doesn't pass that test.
And hell, didn't the Trump administration actually do this, though maybe through different means? Withholding federal funding from providers who offer abortions?
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can agree that its within the federal authority to mandate vaccines, but it really should be a decision made and explicitly endorsed by elected representatives rather than some agency (Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services) that I have never heard of until now and whose head is appointed by one person. If the CMS does it, it is a public health decision. Doing it in Congress makes it a political decision. IMO,…
I disagree. It is a political decision to force 2 million Americans to get a vaccine that they don't want under threat of not being allowed to work in their profession. If you disagree with the decision at least you can vote the bastards out. You're acting like its a trivial procedural matter. These people obviously feel very strongly about it since they're under immense pressure everywhere to get it and they still r…
If fewer people dying/getting sick is a political goal, then more people dying/getting sick so that the current administration gets voted out can also be a political goal.
I'm not a fan of the situation, but you're acting like it's forced sterilization. It's just a vaccine with a very safe profile. For God's sake, all healthcare workers including the cleaning staff have to get flu shots and show their immunizations every year, or they can't work. Even as a college student I had to get a meningitis shot.
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#216*US Courts
This is an international forum.
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#217> Doughty said the CMS lacked the authority to issue a vaccine mandate that would require more than 2 million unvaccinated healthcare workers to get a coronavirus shot. > "There is no question that mandating a vaccine to 10.3 million healthcare workers is something that should be done by Congress, not a government agency," wrote Doughty. That's a good point. You can agree that its within the federal authority to mand…
> You can agree that its within the federal authority to mandate vaccines, but it really should be a decision made and explicitly endorsed by elected representatives rather than some agency I'm from a country (UK) where parliament has absolute power, but also where the populace largely trusts the civil service. Health decisions, prosecution decisions, and so on are explicitly devolved from the government so that they…
I'M in the UK and I absolutely do not trust the civil service at all.
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your freedom to control over one's body ends when it comes to the safety and health of other people's bodies. That's why herd immunity is a thing.
There is no right to not receive another's germs. If we take your argument to its logical conclusion, then the flu vaccine would be mandated. But it's not. So if you say that Covid is different, then what is your threshold or cut-off for when a medical procedure should be mandated?
>There is no right to not receive another's germs
Intentionally coughing on someone is a prosecutable crime in many parts of the world --- What do you think makes it a crime?
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#219Whilst thousands of healthcare workers in the US —- those who are supposed to be proponents of public health measures and rational, scientific thinking - refuse to get vaccinated, ultimately resulting in stockpiles of vaccines getting destroyed … people in third world countries cannot get adequate access to vaccines. This is madness.
This is my biggest worry as well, what are people who clearly do not believe in medical science doing working in a medical capacity? Are these people performing treatments on patients that they do not believe work? The mind boggles.
DO you unironically quite believe that this people do not believe in what they do?
Do you think that medicine is a nothing or all kind of thing? DO you believe that those who do not trust big companies that have paid millions in criminal fines, reject the rest of medicine?
You are simply not Supposed to "believe" in science that is reedit tier thinking, Science is a process and in such process mistrusting leaky vaccines that reduce T cells amounts is ok. Medical Science is not monolithic.
Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
so you'd be cool with employers banning employees who get an abortion. something, something, consequences.
Having had an abortion doesn't affect your ability to safely do your job. Being unvaccinated does.
How about if it's the 1960s, and you're a flight attendant, and "being sexy" is semi-officially part of your job. And your job is requiring you to get an abortion (which is still illegal in the US, and so you're going to have to go to Sweden to get it). And if you won't, well, nobody's making you - you can get a different job.
This is, as far as I can see, the most directly analogous situation. Those who support vaccine mandates, how do you feel about this situation? (And note that this was just an "unofficial" employee mandate - there was no government entity involved.)