I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…
Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
211–220 of 571 posts
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#212This is awesome. Next.js is garbage so hopefully SvelteKit gets all the love and attention from now on.
My biggest issue with NextJS is next/image vendor locks you into Vercel.
And of course any regular NodeJS server works with next/image - https://nextjs.org/docs/deployment#other-hosting-options
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#213I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a backend guy who moved away from frontend long ago for these very reasons, I have to ask: why are people downvoting this? Is it wrong? I'm genuinely asking, because from a bystander's point of view, it certainly seems like the pattern of the Framework Du Jour hasn't really slowed down much in the frontend community.
I didn't downvote, but I'll speak to my experience. First off, you don't have to go learning every framework out there. Pick one and stick with it, or just go vanilla. That said, The features these frameworks provide gives a boost in productivity that far outweighs the low learning curve. My pick was VueJS and I'm very happy with it. Using Single File Components is pretty similar to vanilla HTML/JS/CSS. Beginners tha…
The problem is that each framework has their own abstraction and language that you have to learn. Compare it to "old-school" Java frameworks, where things were much simpler and you didn't have to worry about egregious layers of complexity to just render a DOM.
Grumble grumble
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#215I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…
Though personally I’d almost prefer it was a whole new language than a “kind of JS but with some (necessarily) new syntax”
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#216This is such great news! I've been vaguely aware of svelte for some time now but it wasn't until a few months ago that I started using it professionally and it is such a joy to use! I recently did an onboarding and explained why svelte instead of react of vue, and svelte code, to me, is so much more intuitive and clean! Thanks for the awesome work Rich and best of luck in this new chapter!
I'd like to hear more. What were your conclusions? I'm particularly interested in it compared to Vue. I picked Vue because of most people's complaints about React, so most of the comments I'm seeing are about specific gripes with React and don't really help me make an informed opinion.
As for vue, most of my experience is with vue 2, never really spent a lot of time with the features of vue 3.
To the the some of the syntax of svelte makes more sense than that of vue. For example, to list something in vue an html with v-for is needed, or . This always felt a little awkward to me. In svelte you iterate on the data, not on an html element. So you have an array and just put {#each item i items} ... {/each}, not need for extra html or pseudo
I also prefer svelte's computed properties to vue's. All it takes is a $: value = a + b and from there whenever a or b changes value also changes. Sometimes my computed property on vue will start growing a little too much.
Something similar in vue and svelte that I enjoy a lot is that the code is separated from the html and from the style. Some people are fans of JSX but I can't stand it! It allows me to shoot myself in the feet and I do it way too often.
The store is VERY VERY nice too! it's lighter than vuex but seems to have some of the limitations that redux/mobx have, say, it has to be functional. I haven't had to write any reducers like with redux tho, but stuff like [].push() won't update.
Overall I really really like it because it's almost transparent. I really didn't have to "learn" svelte as I had to vue or react. It was similar enough to HTML/CSS/JS that it took no time picking it up.
But, that's just me
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#217Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#218Svelte Summit Spring 2021: Rich Harris @6:07:00 (link with timecode):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnr9XWvjJHw&t=22020s
>You know, I guess all I can say is that we're thinking about this stuff too, and, like, we want the development velocity to be as fast as possible. But we also don't want Svelte to become like some, I don't know, some VC-funded FauxSS -- did I just coin that: FauxSS? I like that!
>It feels like there's more and more of that these days. There's a lot of people working on open source software, and then, like, you discover that there's a business model behind it.
>And I'm always a little bit skeptical about whether or not that is in the best interests of the software itself. And I don't want Svelte to become a thing that is run in the interests of the people building it, I want it to be a thing that is run in the interests of the community at large.
So what is the opposite of FauxSS? ProSS?
Hmm: "pross: a person who engages in sexual activity for money."
So I guess that means OSS is as great as sexual activity. ;)
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wouldn't Vercel benefit from being the defacto platform to deploy Next & SvelteKit apps?
Yes sure and it's not Vercel's fault that there's no other competitor left out there. I would have hired Rich as well if I were Vercel. But the market will suffer because one (and the better) player just left the market. We can only blame Rich who got weak but yeah, nobody is perfect.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#220I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…
As a backend guy who moved away from frontend long ago for these very reasons, I have to ask: why are people downvoting this? Is it wrong? I'm genuinely asking, because from a bystander's point of view, it certainly seems like the pattern of the Framework Du Jour hasn't really slowed down much in the frontend community.