Firefox lost 50M users since 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#211

Post by natch » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #184

natch wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actions are even more important than disagreements or dislikes. You can disagree with someone who believes in slavery, and you are free to still like them if you want, sure. But if it was me in your place, even if I liked that person, I still would not want to work for them based on their actions. And I think this is a fair position for anyone to take. Or if you are saying it is conceivably possible that Brendan* lik…

Let’s flip this around. Around the world there are many people who have belief systems disagree with homosexuality. Right or wrong, this is presently the case. If some have money in support of the other direction on prop 8 should they have tried to get the person fired or left themselves? A core thing at issue here is right and wrong and lifestyles. No matter what I think, there are people who disagree on this. I’ve…

Pretty sure Brendan donating to a cause trying to influence law was already a case of society dealing with disagreements with action. So if your beef is with taking actions based on disagreements, you should start with being bothered about Brendan’s actions.

As to flipping it around, I get that but didn’t really follow how that helps. Bigots would be perfectly free to not want to work for a non bigot if they want… and they can try to get others onboard with joining them to ask the leader to step down.. good luck with that though. There’s a certain evil to being a bigot that goes beyond just disagreement and dislike.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#212

Post by Nextgrid » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #181

Nextgrid wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Firefox was genuinely better it could win via word of mouth; whether it’s power users recommending it or people having it on their work computers (because their IT mandates it) and wanting the same great browser at home. The problem is that Firefox is basically a Chrome clone at this point, all the way down to the privacy-invading features such as telemetry, so using it nowadays is more down to ideology than a…

How could Mozilla ever compete in technical merit nowadays? Google is siphoning nearly all talent by paying them insanely huge amounts of money. Web is part of Google's core business and they will pour every little penny into it if it means they can be one step ahead and force others to follow them. How can Mozilla, a non-profit, compete with that? Even freaking Microsoft gave up! I'm insanely impressed with Mozilla…

Security and privacy. I mean real privacy, not Firefox’s current illusion of privacy.

Advertising is a common vector for malware, telemetry can inadvertently expose PII or corporate intel and so can their bullshit features such as Pocket that are foisted upon unsuspecting users.

Make a browser that addresses these problems out of the box. The enterprise will be all over it and will be paying actual money for it so they no longer have to beg Google every year.

At the moment Firefox is probably the most user-hostile piece of open-source software that I’m using. After installing it I have to disconnect from the network (as it loads Google Analytics-infested pages on first run and has telemetry enabled out of the box) and spend 10 minutes configuring it (including using about:config to disable Pocket) to defang it.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#213

Post by timbit42 » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

deploydeploy wrote: post #66

I don’t understand myself, why I choose chrome over firefox. Mayba as a web dev, I want to make sure most people will get my website right

You should be testing in the top 3 browsers.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#214

Post by vladvasiliu » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #157

vladvasiliu wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, yes. But Microsoft? I haven't noticed, and I'm on Office 365 all day (my client uses that) while running Firefox / Linux. Microsoft does keep asking me to use Edge on my Windows gaming machine, although it's the only browser I have installed... But I guess the point is... where is Mozilla going to ask people to use Firefox?

Yes, I guess they mean Edge since the new Microsoft Edge uses chromium as their base browser. MS must have gotten tired of paying a huge team of devs to constantly fix and implement new web stuff in EdgeHTML/Chakra.

It's actually the new, Chromium-based Edge. I've actually updated it when it asked, and the current Windows install came with it (installed it fresh around November 2020). But with every Windows 10 version change, it asks me to use the "recommended browser settings", whatever those are.

This is a computer on which my most used browser is the Steam thing. I really don't care either way what it is, so I don't bother installing a specific one.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#215

Post by jaclaz » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

orionblastar wrote: post #2

Firefox no longer has XP support. There are a lot of XP users with older Firefoxes that cannot upgrade. Plus Microsoft Edge isn't as bad as Internet Explorer was.

JFYI, there are forks of Firefox adapted to work on XP, that are not at all bad.

I am reluctant to provide a link because they are highly experimental, but if you wish to try them, knowing that YMMGV, here it is what I personally find the best one (serpent/basilisk):

http://o.rthost.win/basilisk/

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#216

Post by jolux » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

kunagi7 wrote: post #160

csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

If you want to customize your browser (as far as using your own CSS) you can try Vivaldi. I've been using it for years and after the 3.7 update it feels fast and snappy (at least on my computer). It has tons of custom settings around tabs, commands, windows, toolbars, etc. At least on Linux it gets out of my way quite nicely. Things like easily accessible Profiles help me quite a lot with my workflow. If you're reall…

Vivaldi is Chrome underneath.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#217

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

remram wrote: post #197

tedk-42 wrote: post #24

Each to their own. I'm a happy Firefox user and will continue to be on all my devices (including my phone which I'm writing this now with)

I am too, but I have telemetry disabled since their stunt with the Mr Robot extension they installed remotely for everyone [1]. I also run uBlock on both desktop and mobile. I am one of the 50M users counted as lost? [1]: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/mozilla-back...

[deleted]

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#218

Post by cs2733 » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

In the last decade, the proliferation of smartphones led to billions of newly "connected" people using the default browser, not knowing or caring about what a "browser" is. Firefox doesn't ship its own hardware so...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#219

Post by shaan7 » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

prashantsengar wrote: post #153

tedk-42 wrote: post #24

Each to their own. I'm a happy Firefox user and will continue to be on all my devices (including my phone which I'm writing this now with)

I have been trying to switch to Firefox since long but have never been able to completely switch. There have always been some problems that send me away. On my phone (Android), Firefox is quite good except a few UX issues (that I don't mind too much) but the sync with my desktop has NEVER worked. On the desktop, FF has always been slow - in booting, loading pages. The same with Edge and Chrome just work. If I could g…

I can imagine how frustrating it would feel as a Firefox dev reading reports like this and wondering wth is going wrong. Because I'm "just a user" and I've never seen FF being slow to start or loading pages.
Same with sync, I recently install Firefox on a new laptop. Clicked the sync button, logged in with my account and done. In 2-3 minutes all history and addons sync'd \o/ UX wise I really love that Firefox Android has the address bar on the bottom :D

Except some Google stuff like the GCP console.

EDIT: formatting

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#220

Post by Nextgrid » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #205

Nextgrid wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Firefox was genuinely better it could win via word of mouth; whether it’s power users recommending it or people having it on their work computers (because their IT mandates it) and wanting the same great browser at home. The problem is that Firefox is basically a Chrome clone at this point, all the way down to the privacy-invading features such as telemetry, so using it nowadays is more down to ideology than a…

What is chrome technically better at in a way that’s impactful to end users? The idea that the best thing wins just because it’s the best and people will share that is flawed. It basically negates marketing and influence which is what Google’s money making model is based around. And they have been successful at that.

Speed?

Lack of in-browser ads? (Google websites have ads but as far as I’m aware Chrome itself doesn’t have any, unlike Firefox which has sponsored sites and “snippets” on the new tab page - enabled by default obviously).

Lack of constant nagging? Firefox in its default configuration has always something to nag you about. Whether it’s Pocket, Firefox Sync or that it’s just updated and there are potentially new features.