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Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

odysee.com

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Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#211

Post by s17n »

jamiequint wrote: post #39

My primary problem with this article is that the author assumes that consumers get no value from ads. While the author may not personally like ads, it is undeniable that thousands to tens of thousands of consumer brands (the same ones who are now suffering with iOS 14.5 changes) now exist as a result of Facebook’s distribution. These brands mostly would have failed in a pre-FB-ads world. The idea that there is zero c…

There are plenty of legit arguments against ads, here are a few options:

- Ads create desire, which is then possibly sated by a purchase. The net increase in happiness is negative. - Brand advertising is clearly a zero sum game which creates no value - Even if ads can create value, it doesn't make up for the bad things about them

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#212

Post by jamiequint »

websites2023 wrote: post #90
jamiequint wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re making this unnecessarily complicated and I can’t tell if it is in bad faith or not. - users should know of they are going to be tracked (part of the value exchange) - companies should know if ads/tracking are going to be blocked (part of the value exchange) Both parties should then be able to decide how to proceed accordingly.

Your statements lack agents, which contributes to the feeling that they are intentionally slippery. Who is responsible for telling users they are going to be tracked ? Further more, whose responsibility is it to ensure the user understands the implications of that tracking? Whose responsibility is it to ensure that tracking is not abused? Secondly, who is responsible for telling companies that their ads/tracking are…

Cool, bro.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#213

Post by emodendroket »

tendstofortytwo wrote: post #149
emodendroket wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you set up Gmail on your phone you’re not being advertised to at all when you check your mail. It seems hard to imagine any way providing that service for free would be worth their while if they couldn’t harvest the data.

I do see advertisements on the Gmail mobile app though. They're never in the primary view, but the automatic categorizations (Promotions, Social, Updates) generally have them.

The point is that it supports IMAP and POP3.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#214

Post by blooalien »

starky wrote: post #209
corpdrone2021 wrote: post #13

I realized this when Microsoft started reading the emails and attachments in my office 365 account, and having Cortana "helpfully" suggest various to-do items from them. The degree to which this seems to be the case has me convinced that the only way I will actually have any control of my data is if it's on a hard drive in my physical possession. And frankly I don't have time to maintain my own IT infrastructure.

It irritates me to no end how Microsoft keeps updating their programs to make them be "helpful". I literally NEVER want their suggestions, I just want their programs to get out of my fucking way so I can do my work.

One of a thousand Microsoft "papercuts" that drove me to Linux. Admittedly it ain't Windows, but that's pretty much the point. After enough years of daily little Windows annoyances built up, the fact that Linux was not Windows was worth the learning curve to me.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#215

Post by matheusmoreira »

mtnygard wrote: post #142
SyzygistSix wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If I'm buying gas, I'm being served ads via the little screen. The first time I saw that, my immediate reaction was to hit the screen. My second thought was to pour gas on it and light it on fire. I refuse to use any place that does this unless it is a last resort. It's not terribly common where I live (yet) but I assume it is becoming standard. It's enraging.

In my area, I have one option for fuel without ads. That's a place that has old analog pumps that still ding when the gallon dial rolls over. Obviously there's no pay at the pump. If that store goes under or decides to modernize, then I will effectively not have a choice to get fuel without ads. It's really frustrating. I want to let competition and the market sort it out, but when there's no variation in the options…

> I want to let competition and the market sort it out, but when there's no variation in the options there's no real competition.

The market will always conclude it can extract more money out of us if it shows us ads. It doesn't matter what we do. Paying for stuff just makes us even more valuable to advertisers.

Wish we could just ban this stuff straight up.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#216

Post by [deleted] »

merrywhether wrote: post #45
neither_color wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was mortified by Cortana auto-extracting todos from private emails but my father in his late 50’s said it was neat and very useful for him. So it goes.

Long term this is definitely something I want from my personal AI assistant, filtering out all kinds of annoyance/tedium from my life, so I totally understand how your father could like it. The difference for you and I right now is that we don’t view the AIs as personal enough and thus don’t trust them.

[deleted]

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#217

Post by SyzygistSix »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #215
mtnygard wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, I have one option for fuel without ads. That's a place that has old analog pumps that still ding when the gallon dial rolls over. Obviously there's no pay at the pump. If that store goes under or decides to modernize, then I will effectively not have a choice to get fuel without ads. It's really frustrating. I want to let competition and the market sort it out, but when there's no variation in the options…

> I want to let competition and the market sort it out, but when there's no variation in the options there's no real competition. The market will always conclude it can extract more money out of us if it shows us ads. It doesn't matter what we do. Paying for stuff just makes us even more valuable to advertisers. Wish we could just ban this stuff straight up.

Sao Paulo banned billboards and large signage throughout the city. I'm not sure if it would be a first amendment issue but it doesn't seem much different than banning billboards, which some states/cities do. Like addressing noise pollution, it's just part of not having a polluted environment.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#218

Post by matheusmoreira »

SyzygistSix wrote: post #217
matheusmoreira wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to let competition and the market sort it out, but when there's no variation in the options there's no real competition. The market will always conclude it can extract more money out of us if it shows us ads. It doesn't matter what we do. Paying for stuff just makes us even more valuable to advertisers. Wish we could just ban this stuff straight up.

Sao Paulo banned billboards and large signage throughout the city. I'm not sure if it would be a first amendment issue but it doesn't seem much different than banning billboards, which some states/cities do. Like addressing noise pollution, it's just part of not having a polluted environment.

Yeah, I've read about that. Really awesome move from São Paulo. In my city people are placing ads everywhere. About three huge billboards on every major street, electronic billboards brighter than the sun, ads near sidewalks and traffic lights, ads on street signs, ads anywhere and everywhere they can possibly get away with. I'd rather look at graffiti than this garbage...

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#219

Post by xboxnolifes »

D13Fd wrote: post #145
pdpi wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tracking is becoming less effective, and the only recourse they have is stuffing even more ads everywhere to make up for the lost revenue from targeting. This is great, because you're not affected if you have uBlock Origin. If you don't, install it right now. That's part of the context, and pretty much goes in the direction of "I just don't want any advertising at all". I can sympathise, but we need to find a way t…

This is actually what bothered me the most about the article. If we all install add blockers, content producers can't make money.

I would be more supporting of turning off my ad-block if the average blog or news post didn't have 70% of the screen be ads, with 2 ad popups, a cookie banner, an auto-playing video, and a redirect to another ad page on first click.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#220

Post by hobs »

pessimizer wrote: post #173
Cederfjard wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, that’s how you feel, and your choice. What do you think about people who wouldn’t mind being spied on in exchange for free or cheaper services? I’m personally with you, by the way, but I think it’s worth pointing out that it’s not the only valid position.

What do you say about children who really want to work in mines, or people who want to sell themselves into slavery?

My grandfather sold himself into slavery for 2 years for a handful of sheep - I would say that we should fix the world so that such a thing never happens and it should never be allowed.
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