It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate • Hacker News Board

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#211

Post by sgtnoodle » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

sigstoat wrote: post #91

solipsism wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, purposefully waste people's time. Fuck them, right? I've seen this kind of attitude before, and it's usually justified with something about how the companies don't respect your time so why should you respect theirs. The thing is... the kind of people at these companies who don't care about your time are the kind of people who would do something like this.

> Ah, yes, purposefully waste people's time. Fuck them, right? as an interviewer, i'm far more concerned about the time spent sorting through piles of resumes from people who are just rolling the dice, and didn't read the job posting / aren't qualified. maybe upper management cares about the time spent, but i'd be happy to talk for 45-60 minutes to somebody who was an even remotely passable candidate who didn't actua…

Yeah, getting a company to schedule a full onsite interview panel is a big time investment, and lame if there's zero chance of it going anywhere. If some random person emails me asking for advice on how to practice relevant skills or prepare for an interview, though, I'll schedule a video chat right away and talk for hours if they want. I'll also hop on a call a few days after rejecting someone and give them detailed feedback if they want.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#212

Post by onion2k » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

sudeepj wrote: post #78

tdeck wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if the extra work is rewarded as much as you might think. For example, I was shocked to see a prominent open-source contributor hired into Google as an L5. Without going into detail, this person built projects used by many people reading this comment. Granted, I don't know what their comp or interview process was like, but 5 is basically an ordinary senior engineer level at Google.

The key question imo is: Was he still subjected to same interview process where he has to prove his coding skills inspite of being prominent open-source contributor? As for L5 level based on anecdotal stories anything beyond L6 is hard in Google. Search for "Crossing that barrier to L6 is getting more and more difficult with time" in [1] [1] https://debarghyadas.com/writes/why-i-left-google/ The article is from 2019…

Was he still subjected to same interview process where he has to prove his coding skills inspite of being prominent open-source contributor

Google don't want people who are generally great developers though. They want people with specific skills who can solve the complex compsci problems they think they have. Consequently they hire people who can invert binary trees rather than people who can just write good or popular open source code.

Google's failure to capture the public imagination is why so many Google products get killed off, so I reckon they're solving the wrong problems. If Google engineers were less inclined to think 'this is a hard problem that only very clever people can solve' and more 'this is a simple problem that needs a better solution' they'd launch more things people actually want to use.

This actually means Google would be far better off hiring the popular open source dev instead of (or as well as) the PhD in Binary Tree Gravity dev.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#213

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

serial_dev wrote: post #168

Jach wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you distinguish between "made a crappy chat app with Python+Flask because I wanted to play with Flask [and perhaps by making it public my hiring prospects will improve as a bonus, or not, but I don't have a strong reason to just keep it private on my machine]" and "made a crappy chat app with Python+Flask because I want to put Flask on my resume and hopefully my hiring prospects will improve"? Or is it just th…

> The only account that rubbed me the wrong way when I interviewed FTEs and interns was the kind that had nothing but a bunch of forks of other repos on it, no commits in them. Maybe they didn't understand how GitHub works exactly? In the first weeks of me using github, I didn't notice the star feature, so I just forked a project, so I have it on my list. Even today, if I see an important repository, I just fork the…

[deleted]

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#214

Post by pmichaud » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #180

teknofobi wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always remind people to learn something first before you try to teach other people. Teaching is one the greatest ways to learn and develop your relation and vocabulary for what you are currently learning. It’s one of the greatest tricks a good college class will pull, having students continually drag each other a step further as they learn something new and then have to explain it to their peers. Most blogging is…

> Teaching is one the greatest ways to learn and develop your relation and vocabulary for what you are currently learning Oh sure it is. I studied theoretical math and I found teaching other students math was great way to get it organized in my head. But we also had professor and I wasn't teaching anybody original ideas, just the material that was already written and defined. Now I have decades of development experie…

I find this attitude a bit sad :( I think there's at least one place we agree which is that it's annoying when people do shiny yet perfunctory things as basically a gimmick or trick to convey the impression of depth that just isn't there.

But... I think someone with 3 years of experience deeply engaging with the question of OOP is a great thing to do. You're not wrong that they can't possibly know, but that's not relevant I think. Trying to own the domain and think critically about the sacred cows and reinvent the useful parts is exactly what a good autodidact has to do. And doing it in public view, available for critique and ridicule, I think puts skin in the game and shows character.

There's something to be said for certainty and epistemic humility, but also I think basically everyone who ever invented a truly new thing or learned something nontrivial on their own had to bring enough audacity to the table to get over the line.

Maybe it's a personality difference and you're making the right choice for the type of personality you want your org to have.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#215

Post by Jach » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:11 AM UTC

serial_dev wrote: post #168

Jach wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you distinguish between "made a crappy chat app with Python+Flask because I wanted to play with Flask [and perhaps by making it public my hiring prospects will improve as a bonus, or not, but I don't have a strong reason to just keep it private on my machine]" and "made a crappy chat app with Python+Flask because I want to put Flask on my resume and hopefully my hiring prospects will improve"? Or is it just th…

> The only account that rubbed me the wrong way when I interviewed FTEs and interns was the kind that had nothing but a bunch of forks of other repos on it, no commits in them. Maybe they didn't understand how GitHub works exactly? In the first weeks of me using github, I didn't notice the star feature, so I just forked a project, so I have it on my list. Even today, if I see an important repository, I just fork the…

That's a possible charitable interpretation, sure. Still, it's weird, the only reason you should want to link your github account is to showcase some of your work. If there's nothing of your work there, not even any gists, what's going on? I don't care if you have a ton of forks so long as there's also something of your own I can look at.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#216

Post by sgtnoodle » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:14 AM UTC

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #209

sgtnoodle wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I need to implement a binary search maybe once a year. I had a legit use of a priority queue a couple years ago and I'm still excited about it! I've still never had a professional use for a Trei structure. I tried really hard to make a case for it on a project at Google, but it just didn't make sense vs. slapping down std::map and then drinking a beer.

In which case would you actually implement a binary search instead of using an existing library method for that?

Code running on a microcontroller with very limited RAM, operating on data structures that don't naturally plug into generic algorithm implementations. For example, finding the end of a several GB long append-only log file stored on the raw blocks of an SD card.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#217

Post by ithinkso » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:14 AM UTC

kebman wrote: post #154

RandallBrown wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a pure engineering role things like credits at large companies, online talks, side projects, etc. are all really great ways to get an interview. I can't really remember the last time I was turned down for an interview. You're totally right about the other part though. I've lost a lot of jobs I think I could have been great at because I'm really bad at whiteboard coding interviews.

Does this mean that the whiteboard coding interviews are flawed, or that guys like us, who has made a ton of more or less great projects are flawed? Why would a company rather have a guy that can solve binary search in five seconds, than one that has showed continuous progress with several finished projects over the years? Do they think accomplished guys somehow are a liability? Or is it that they want a blank sheet…

> Why would a company rather have a guy that can solve binary search in five seconds, than one that has showed continuous progress with several finished projects over the years?

They probably only interview people that have showed continuous progress with several finished projects over the years and hire only those that are good and can code instead of pulling leftpad from npm (a snarky response but so is yours, as if it's either good at whiteboard interviews but uncreative imp or bad at interviews but great and accomplished)

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#218

Post by vasilakisfil » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:17 AM UTC

In my experience none really cares about your side projects during interviews. I have plenty of side projects, given plenty of talks, I list some of those in my resume along with my github link, yet from 40 interviews I had in the past 5 years I think ~3 mentioned something about my talks and side projects. And definitely didn't give me any advantage over the other interviewers.

But I am fine with that, I do my side projects & talks because I enjoy it and not to increase my chances when applying to a new job. Although there is nothing wrong to do a side project to increase your chances to get a better job.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#219

Post by VBprogrammer » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:17 AM UTC

z3t4 wrote: post #200

SlowAndCalm wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am similar (putting my WebGL games on my portfolio) and I've found it's actually a pretty good filter of employers for me. If they bring it up and are willing to have a discussion about it, it's always a good sign. There's a wide range of topics to talk about that can relate to the possibly more boring requirements of the job. If they are dismissive of them, it tends to be an early sign that they are unable to thin…

If you are over qualified, like having published several games on your own, it's not like they don't think you can do they job, they might think you will get bored and miserable.

I've personally come across this dilemma when hiring people. My own take is that's none of my goddamn business and if the person is the most qualified for the job then it's theirs for the taking.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#220

Post by dmurray » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:18 AM UTC

carnitine wrote: post #176

kebman wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that the whiteboard coding interviews are flawed, or that guys like us, who has made a ton of more or less great projects are flawed? Why would a company rather have a guy that can solve binary search in five seconds, than one that has showed continuous progress with several finished projects over the years? Do they think accomplished guys somehow are a liability? Or is it that they want a blank sheet…

Binary search? I would never hire anyone who couldn’t implement it from scratch. There’s no complex idea or trick to remember, it’s the most basic algorithmic around.

I feel like I'm pretty good at these things, but I'd 100% have an off-by-one error in my first attempt at binary search. I can get it right quickly if I'm able to test the code, or very slowly if I have to work through several test cases by hand on the whiteboard.

There's a lot of room in between "couldn't implement it" and "can do it in 5 seconds" and "wrote a buggy version of it".