Pesticides are killing the world's soils • Hacker News Board

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#211

Post by stjohnswarts » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:30 AM UTC

Ma8ee wrote: post #180

snovv_crash wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's far worse than GMO. Because besides the changes which were desired, there are also a whole bunch of random mutations which were introduced, which could do anything from making the species highly invasive, to putting carcinogens in the parts used for human consumption. GM is much safer and easier to verify as not having harmful side effects. And, it's easier. The only reason they invented this process at all…

Also, what process is there for verifying that GMOs don't have any harmful side effects that you can't use for traditionally bred plants?

Animal and human testing just like virtually every other biological scientific endeavor. We also have gotten pretty good at detecting chemicals that would cause such issues. I guess I'm just throwing that out there.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#212

Post by riffraff » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:31 AM UTC

monetus wrote: post #61

riffraff wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eat local things that grows naturally like weed in your area Eating wild plants is a forgotten art. In my neighbourhood there's an insane amount of Prunus Cerasifera but they're basically left to rot on trees, seems I'm the only one who bothers to pick them up. But it must be pointed out that one should be careful with weed foraging, I'm part of a forum on "edible wild plants" and the amount of mis-identified ones…

Mind sharing the forum? - And for those reading this; in the vein of avoiding pollution, maybe don't forage next to a major highway.

It's a Facebook group and it's in Italian, so I'm not sure it'll be interesting to you, but look for "erbe spontanee mangerecce".

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#213

Post by Ma8ee » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 12:43 PM UTC

stjohnswarts wrote: post #211

Ma8ee wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, what process is there for verifying that GMOs don't have any harmful side effects that you can't use for traditionally bred plants?

Animal and human testing just like virtually every other biological scientific endeavor. We also have gotten pretty good at detecting chemicals that would cause such issues. I guess I'm just throwing that out there.

The question was about what kind of testing that can be done on GMOs that can't be done on other types of organisms. The commenter that I was hoping to answer me claimed that it is harder to test traditionally bred organisms than GMOs.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#214

Post by aliasEli » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

sampo wrote: post #64

This is a skillfully written piece to raise anger. But if you look closely, there are some signs: This piece refers to a study [1]. As they mention, this Scientific American piece is written by 2 of the 5 authors of the study. 4 out of 5 of the study authors don't work in a conventional academic institution, but in nature conservation non-profits [2, 3]. The study [1] is titled "A Hazard Assessment". If you know the…

Note that Tara Cornelisse has a PhD inn Environmental Studies at the University of California Santa Cruz. She also worked as an assistant professor at Canisius College in Buffalo. Just the fact that she works at a nature conservation non-profit does not disqualify her as an expert.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#215

Post by bcrl » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #98

BelenusMordred wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like they are quite drastic initiatives To me the greatest thing about Switzerland's direct democracy is that society gets the opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them with a very quick turnaround. If it really is a bad thing or has unintended consequences, the people will revert it back soon enough. I doubt that is the case, but time will tell. The problem with modern 2-party systems in the West is…

> The problem with modern 2-party systems in the West You mean the US, maybe Canada? The closest equivalents outside of North America, the UK and Australia, with the same broken voting system that favours a limited party landscape, have more than 2 parties in the mainstream and coalitions are often needed ( like Tories with DUP recently).

Canada is decidedly not a 2 party system. There are 5 parties in parliment in total, although the Greens only have 3 seats. Yes, 2 parties tend to hold power, but we also end up with the ruling party only having a minority (as is currently the case) from time to time which makes for a very different dynamic. The biggest difference between Canada and the US is that Canadian voters can and will act to kick a government out of office when they aren't acting in the interests of the people, sometimes shifting the makeup of the government significantly after a general election. Ridings also aren't gerrymandered insanely, so there are many seats which can shift parties.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#216

Post by aliasEli » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

rapnie wrote: post #144

In The Netherlands we have what we proudly call "The Green Heart", the rural area inbetween the cities of Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Eindhoven and Utrecht. But while this looks nice to the untrained eye, green pastures and all, it might as well be a desert. Monocrop grasslands with little to no life in the ground, hardly any insects let alone birds. Grown on industrial fertilizer, and sprayed with insecticides.…

In the Netherlands we are witnessing a dramatic reduction in meadow birds. One of the main suspects is the deteroration in soil life.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#217

Post by sofixa » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

malka wrote: post #156

soco wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a common mistake to judge the entire west from an US perspective. But the UK is not very far from the 2 parties system either.

France is closer and closer from a 2 parties system

Bullshit, look at any election from the past 5 years and there are at least 5 mainstream parties - PS, LR, RN, LREM, EELV. PS are in a bit of a crisis but still do decently in local and European elections.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#218

Post by sofixa » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

LunaSea wrote: post #159

malka wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France is closer and closer from a 2 parties system

France is currently a 1 party system.

France is always a 1 party system in regards to who is in direct central power, since parliamentary elections are just after presidential ones, to send the winning president a parliament they can work with. In almost all cases the ( slim) majority the ruling party has falls apart over the course of their term.

And that's why there's an indirectly elected upper chamber ( Senate), to avoid a populist wave changing too much.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#219

Post by monetus » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #212

monetus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind sharing the forum? - And for those reading this; in the vein of avoiding pollution, maybe don't forage next to a major highway.

It's a Facebook group and it's in Italian, so I'm not sure it'll be interesting to you, but look for "erbe spontanee mangerecce".

Molte grazie

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#220

Post by snovv_crash » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

Ma8ee wrote: post #178

snovv_crash wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's far worse than GMO. Because besides the changes which were desired, there are also a whole bunch of random mutations which were introduced, which could do anything from making the species highly invasive, to putting carcinogens in the parts used for human consumption. GM is much safer and easier to verify as not having harmful side effects. And, it's easier. The only reason they invented this process at all…

More random mutations than traditional breeding? I would be genuinely interested if you could provide some reliable source for what you are claiming. But I must confess that for now it sounds like FUD spread by the GMO industry.

Ostensibly the same as traditional breeding, but done on an industrial scale. GM is the outlier, with no random mutations, only the specifically designed ones.