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Pesticides are killing the world's soils

scientificamerican.com

61–70 of 231 posts

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#61
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can join a CSA (Community supported agriculture) or join a local Foodcoop. Eat local things that grows naturally like weed in your area. For example, in my case I do not buy bananas at all, but organic apples from sources and land I know.

> Eat local things that grows naturally like weed in your area Eating wild plants is a forgotten art. In my neighbourhood there's an insane amount of Prunus Cerasifera but they're basically left to rot on trees, seems I'm the only one who bothers to pick them up. But it must be pointed out that one should be careful with weed foraging, I'm part of a forum on "edible wild plants" and the amount of mis-identified ones…

Mind sharing the forum? - And for those reading this; in the vein of avoiding pollution, maybe don't forage next to a major highway.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#62
post #20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dengue fever is a serious disease and it’s not rare in Singapore, there were 40,000+ cases in 2020 which is pretty high for a population of 5M. If they stopped their mosquito control efforts it would be disastrous for human health.

There are alternatives, like the release of genetically engineered male mosquitos.

Singapore has been trialing as well that since 2016. It's safe to say they haven't solved the problem yet.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/nea-release-wolbachia-...

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#63
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still remains to be seen, right? Wasn't the first release of gmo mosquitos only recently in Florida?

No, there were several earlier trials. I think there were issues in scaling up the mosquito modification process.

There is a very scalable process. You breed mosquitoes, about half of which have the gene you're after (so the population isn't infertile). You have machines that can sort them very quickly, and you only release to the wild the infertile male ones. I made a sorting machine that can sort 10 larvae per second - it's all just computer vision looking at their microscopic balls!

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#64
This is a skillfully written piece to raise anger. But if you look closely, there are some signs:

This piece refers to a study [1]. As they mention, this Scientific American piece is written by 2 of the 5 authors of the study. 4 out of 5 of the study authors don't work in a conventional academic institution, but in nature conservation non-profits [2, 3]. The study [1] is titled "A Hazard Assessment". If you know the lingo, a hazard is different from a risk. Hazard means: This could potentially be a risk, if right conditions are met. The study itself [1] is a literature search of laboratory and field studies on the impact of pesticides on soil invertebrates. From [1]:

> Conclusion

> This paper constitutes a comprehensive review of the impacts of agricultural pesticides on soil invertebrates. We found that pesticide exposure negatively impacted soil invertebrates in 70.5% of 2,842 tested parameters from 394 reviewed studies.

If you do a literature study on studies on how plant and insect poisons affect insects, the expected result is of course, insect poisons are poisonous to insects. And plant poisons can have observable effects, meeting the conditions of a hazard.

Now, to what extend is farming "Killing the World's Soils", and to what extent can the negative effects of farming be attributed to pesticide use, soil tilling, biodiversity loss etc., this piece is not a high quality contribution.

[1] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenvs.2021.6438...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Biological_Diversit...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_the_Earth

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#65
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a healthier ecosystem better handle mosquitoes, though? Predators of mosquitoes are bats, birds, fishes, frogs…

A healthy ecosystem in Singapore will be chock-full of mosquitoes and no humans. The island started out as a swamp.

Fun fact: Singapore's equivalent to Disneyland, the island of Sentosa (home to Universal Studios etc), used to be called "Pulau Blakang Mati", or "Island of Death from Behind", because of its incredible malaria rates.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#66
We have solutions to this for most (maybe all) contexts, at least as far as agriculture is concerned, in regenerative agriculture[0]. It requires a paradigm shift from the dominant type of agriculture taking place in the US and many other parts of the world, but it is not only better for soils and ecosystems – it's probably much better for our health as consumers, potentially more profitable for farmers, and can have an enormous positive impact in reigning in climate change.

It can seem too good to be true, but consider that when we mess with one aspect of nature by say, growing mono-culture crops rather than poly-cultures, we end up needing to intervene in many other aspects of ecosystems. The choice to annually till fields and grow acres upon acres of single crops year after year means we also need to recreate (poorly) natural systems of fertility (fertilizers), competition defense (herbicides), pest defense (pesticides), and disease defense (fungicides).

This model has other negative externalities as well, such as soil erosion, poor natural water infiltration and holding capacity, leaching of fertilizers and *-icides into surrounding areas and bodies of water which interrupt natural processes and are detrimental to life and health elsewhere, poor carbon sequestration, etc, etc.

The core principles of regenerative agriculture are to mimic nature and take advantage of natural processes rather than fighting them at every step, and to avoid intervening whenever possible. In the same way that the fastest and most maintainable line of code is the one you don't have to write, the cheapest and most effective agricultural practice is the one you don't need to do.

For those interested in a deep dive with a farmer from North Dakota who is very successfully putting these ideas into practice, see Gabe Brown[1] (who I first heard about here on HN, and for which I'm very grateful). If you're interested in agriculture, farming or even just gardening, I highly recommend watching the whole video. For a higher level and more accessible take, check out the documentary Kiss the Ground[2].

I've been trying to put these ideas into practice in my own ~100sq ft of growing space in NYC and, while it's still early in the growing season and hard to distinguish variables year-to-year, my garden is looking dramatically better this year[3] than at the same time in years past. Some of it for sure is a better sense of timing on my part and early warm weather here, but there are a lot of promising signs and I'm looking forward to seeing the state of things towards the end of the season when last year I had lost most of my tomato plants to pest pressures.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_agriculture

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExXwGkJ1oGI

[2] https://kisstheground.com/

[3] https://imgur.com/a/ybquJIX

Edit: The article specifically mentions regenerative agriculture, but says "pesticide companies know that these practices are often accompanied by increased pesticide use." I think it's a misnomer to call something regenerative agriculture when pesticide use is even higher than in conventional agriculture.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#67
post #49
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We were able to genetically modify plants so they generated natural pesticides as a defense against insects. Isn't this the good old "naturalistic fallacy" though? Would you eat a poisonous mushroom because the poison is "natural"? You can at least wash some pesticides off. I'm not a biologist but I'm sure there is a difference between crossing different varieties of peas versus introducing a non-pea (or maybe non-…

Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) is a naturally occurring bacterium in the soil that produces proteins specifically active against certain insects. This is the exact same insecticide used by certified organic growers. Plant breeders have just engineered the plants to produce it in their leaves, not in the corn itself. For thirty years objections have been raised, scientific research has been done disproving the objections…

Just because it occurs naturally in soil doesn’t mean it is harmless, especially in concentrated settings.

Putting BT-Genes in plants also means using pesticides indiscriminately and precludes targeted pesticide use.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other political reasons for the ban... Do you want your whole food supply dependant on licensing from another nation who is an ally today, but could use this as a bargaining chip to "do as we say or we'll stop licensing you corn and destroy your agriculture industry".

Sure, but licensing/patents are entirely separate from the environment benefits here.

If you say "I'll take the environmental benefits, but pass on the patents/licensing", you're quickly gonna get slapped with sanctions.

So they aren't really seperate.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#69

My observation is that smaller farmers, especially cottage farming, have a really good grasp on soil health and actively cultivate soil via grazing. Grazing is one of the best things we can do to build soil. Animals and the soil grew up and evolved together. It’s a shame the world is turning so strongly against meat, regardless of how it’s raised.

Grazing with works well in the types of habitat where cows, sheep evolved. It wreaks absolute havoc on ecosystems that aren't used to it, such as Australia or reclaimed Brazilian jungle.

https://wwf.panda.org/wwf_offices/australia/environmental_pr...

The most sustainable meat to eat in Australia is kangaroos.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#70

In Switzerland, we're soon going to vote on two initiatives ¹² aiming at reducing pesticide use. The first is essentially about forbidding the use of all artificial pesticides by 2031 (also importation of food that was produced abroad using pesticides). The second is about removing subsidies to farmers that use any kind of pesticide, or regularly use antibiotics on their livestock, etc. I feel like they are quite dra…

> I feel like they are quite drastic initiatives

To me the greatest thing about Switzerland's direct democracy is that society gets the opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them with a very quick turnaround.

If it really is a bad thing or has unintended consequences, the people will revert it back soon enough. I doubt that is the case, but time will tell.

The problem with modern 2-party systems in the West is they are highly confrontational and loathe to undo the policies they wore on their shirt for so long, often waiting until most of the senior people behind such decisions are gone. It creates this horrible inertia against adeptly experimenting with solutions.

If politicians can offload some of the blame onto people for laws created, that's a good thing for society in my view.

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