Why I Work on Ads • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#211

Post by Justsignedup » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #170

omginternets wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a flat out dismissal of Ads in general. Yes, I agree. That is indeed another unoriginal, stale perspective. The question for me isn't so much whether hear from one side more than the other, but whether there is some new idea. For me, intellectual content matters much more than equal representation in (social) media. By this measure, the OP's post is equally trite. >In the context of Ads. Not all ads are large-scale…

> this may have been an opportunity for OP to provide some insight into how the adtech market is evolving, and make the case that it is headed in an ethical direction. He did not There's a section of post with "build browser APIs that will allow this kind of well-targeted advertising without sending your browsing history to advertisers, and then get rid of third-party cookies"; I'm curious what you think of it?

I personally am of the opinion that "targeted advertising" _is_ the problem.

Random generic advertising is fine. It isn't as profitable but it doesn't exploit a person's mental weaknesses. Targeted advertising is straight up exploitation.

Kids being bombarded with ads for plastic surgery nonestop on TikTok, radicalized individuals being targeted with fear-based ads. This is super toxic. And while advertising is a tale as old as human commerce, such insane targeted advertising is not.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#212

Post by jefftk » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

efa wrote: post #104

Bellamy wrote: post #18

1. Good points. There is no better alternative available. 2. There are worst jobs to have like working for the auto industry. 3. He's definitely a better person than I am with better values. Who gives 50% earned to charity?

>>Who gives 50% earned to charity? Perhaps some. But I'm sure they don't brag to the world about it.

More people should: https://www.jefftk.com/p/make-your-giving-public

(Written years before I started on ads at Google)

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#213

Post by chrismorgan » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #130

omginternets wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I don't think that's why people are downvoting. Speaking for myself, it's because his analysis focuses only on the benefits of ads, and conveniently ignores the actual ethical problems ( e.g. large-scale collect…

I think that advertising in general, pre-internet, was perhaps a pain. It was unsightly to have stuff plastered all over buses, trains, any available space someone was trying to show something in your face, to get their brands name in your eyeline. Now they are still doing that, but they have compounded the awfulness, because now they track where you are visiting and push more of those ads in your eyeline. Switched d…

I’m only 29, but the impression I have received from my youth, from parental and grandparental anecdotes, and from photographic records is that offline advertising in at least Melbourne, Australia is worse than it was, with a key tipping period being somewhere around 15 years ago. As the most significant example, public transport vehicles and locations had no-to-minimal advertising 20 years ago; now they have extensive advertising surfaces, inside and out, and the big posters at most of the train stations cycle between multiple ads and blah blah blah. Awful stuff.

My guess is that offline advertising has become cheaper and so they do more of it.

I live out in the country now. There are no outdoor ads here. I like it.

(The local weekly paper is called The Advertiser: an apt name, for it’s about ¾ ads. But I don’t look at it. My life is basically completely ad-free except when I go down to Melbourne.)

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#214

Post by anchpop » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

stevenicr wrote: post #166

jasode wrote: post #29

The author jefftk is getting unfairly downvoted maybe because cynics just see it as a version of, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I will offer a contrarian opinion as a user whose salary does not depend on advertising: the advertising model for using Google search and watching Youtube videos works better for me as a consumer . The alternati…

If "The alternative of paying $9.99/year for Youtube" was really an option - I would buy it for at least 4 kids I know, and two adults that need it, to remove the horrible ads, especially on mobile. Get me started on the ads that come with play store apps and "free games". however at $12/month that would be $864 per year to help them. I would jump at $60 / year for 6 people.. heck that would save me on comcast overag…

My family pays for youtube premium (https://www.youtube.com/premium/family), it's $18/month for 5 people. They also get access to "youtube music premium", which is basically a spotify clone (so unlimited music with no ads). It's quite a good deal imo

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#215

Post by TimPC » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #163

"I give half of what I earn to the most effective charities I can find, and the more I earn the more I can give." It makes me sick to read this garbage. This charity bullshit is what too many rich people hide behind to rationalize the crap they do to humanity. Bezos and Gates destroyed so much good on their way up, they will never be able to buy themselves out with charity. Same goes for the author of that article. I…

I find this genuinely hard to believe about Gates. There is a lot not to like about Microsoft but I find it hard to believe the net good of who wins in technology is going to be larger than projects like curing Polio, effective sanitation in places that don't have it, all kinds of energy technology to fight global warming and so much more. I'm not saying Bill Gates is a good person or that his actions since redeem bad business practices at Microsoft, but in terms of net good done in the world it's hard for me to believe we haven't come out ahead.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#216

Post by senbarryobama » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #133

crumbshot wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a hard time believing the author is unaware of this, so I'm left wondering: why? What was the point of this exercise? I reckon it was mostly a brag about (1) how he earns over half a million dollars a year for inflicting this upon us all and (2) how much more charitable he is than most of the rest of us.

> he earns over half a million dollars a year nit: that's my family's joint income. My individual income is at https://www.jefftk.com/money (I've been putting my income online since 2008 when my salary was $65k. https://www.jefftk.com/p/salary-publicy for why I think more people should share their incomes.)

Did you have a competing offer to get those sign on RSUs at Google?

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#217

Post by gfodor » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

> I see ads as a force for good

> I feel OK about working on it because I give half my salary to charity

Cognitive dissonance that occurs between sentences is particularly hilarious.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#218

Post by adamqureshi » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

I have a 1 man shop start up ( marketplace) and i charge an upfront fee to list. The very fist thing an interested party asks me is, what isn't free to list? The big boys platform in this space make it free to list and they make money from ads. A small time guy like me in a niche market has to charge an upfront fee to pay to put food on the table for my family and i don't run ads on my site and i don't use cookies. Most people are so USED to free that it's a shock to them i charge a fee to list on my site. Advertising has SHAPED their behavior. Thats my 2 cents. I have been in business since 2016. Never ran third party ads on my site.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#219

Post by decasteve » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

If I'm trying to read, watch, or listen to something of a thoughtful nature, something that requires my utmost attention to grasp or process, and reflect upon it, ads are destructive. They destroy the experience and slow or limit the learning process. If everything we do is interrupted, it's an attack on our thoughts and disrespectful of our time.

Our Internet experiences are becoming Ray Bradbury's worst nightmare, interspersed with its "Denham's Dentifrice" ads and Facebook Mildreds everywhere.

Re: Why I Work on Ads

#220

Post by intrasight » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

raspyberr wrote: post #59

ipaddr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outcry would be huge if everything went to a pay model.

I foresee micropayments being extremely common place in the future. Something like a digital wallet browser extension. And instead of paying 5p to watch a video, you will instead pay 5p to skip 3 minute ads.

The articles said that the industry has been talking about micropayments for 25 years and says it's hard. I think the real issue is that no large-ish tech organization has any incentive to invest in micropayments.